That’s funny you mention this. A poster on Z.com once claimed the 32 symbol cipher decoded to "a gift for you for helping find the MIA’s ,go to the path before devil’s pulpit ". Now, there is indeed a devils pulpit on Mount Diablo

Enroute to trying to find the original reference to the deciphered devil’s pulpit quote you mentioned, I googled upon a very curious old book called "The Devil’s Pulpit: An Astro-Theological Sermon" by Reverend Robert Taylor. It was published in 1857.

You can see a copy of the book here:

http://archive.org/stream/devilspulpit0 … l_djvu.txt

Or order it from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Devils-Pulpit … 1585092576

There is a wiki about the author:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_(Radical )

It seems this man had an impact on Charles Darwin.

Anyway, it looks like interesting reading. Meanwhile, can anybody provide a link to the original discussion about the 13-character cypher quote that Nin mentioned?

I would like to know how it was derived.

Many thanks,

G

As to the subject of this topic, "Gender Issues", I was quite surprised to stumble across this thread because I have recently been wondering whether Z might have had some gender issues.

In fact, I left a few comments on Mike Cole’s (excellent) site. He did some posts on the Count Marco letters awhile back, which you should read, if you haven’t already.

He starts with a set of writeups called "Ten Days of Count Marco" in which he introduces us to the 10 last articles written by Count Marco prior to Z sending the famous letter. The name of the game is to figure which article triggered Z to send the Count Marco missive. Here is the link:

http://zodiacrevisited.com/ten-days-of-count-marco/

He then completes the discussion with a follow-up post in which he explains which article of the 10 he believes provoked the Zodiac to write a letter:

http://zodiacrevisited.com/ten-days-of- … nclusions/

His reasoning is excellent, but that is nothing new for him.

That said, I saw something else in the Count Marco letter, as well as in the Exorcist, SLA and Badlands letters, that leads me to wonder if Z did indeed have gender issues. If you are interested, you can read my comments at the bottom of the Count Marco Conclusions thread. I believe there were 3 or 4 comments from the last few weeks that explain why I think the Z may have had gender issues.

Now, when I read your introductory comments, Trav, it occurs to me that the HC card supports this hypothesis in a number of ways:
1) The outer picture of the card, with the image of the "male" skeleton, raises the hope of learning Z’s name. The inside does not seem to provide that information, but (if my conjecture is correct) it may be revealing–in Z’s cryptic way– a crucial piece of information about Z’s identity. Namely, that Z is in some way transforming between the two genders.
2) This placing of the pumpkin over the ‘genital’ area may be further backup to this idea: It draws attention to that part of the body. I have the impression that the pumpkin was designed to fall off, this revealing the ‘genital’ area. Funny, though, that skeletons no longer have genitalia.
3) The pumpkin itself, and the mask over the "female" pumkin’s face have long suggested to me the story of Cinderella at the masquerade ball–whose pumpkin carriage "disappeared" at the stroke of twelve. The Cinderella story is about a woman’s transformation, which once again corresponds to the themes underlyinf the subject matter of the Exorcist, SLA, Badlands and Count Marco letters. (Please refer to my aforementioned comments on Mike C’s website.)

Great topic, Trav. Many thanks,

G

Also, I just remembered another observation I had made rececently related to the Little List. The thread (viewtopic.php?f=62&t=216&start=10) was discussing the Groucho Marx version and how Z seemed to be quoting–and misquoting–from that particular rendition.

As I was reading a comment that Smithy had made, it dawned on me that one of his several mistakes stood out from the others as a different kind of mistake. Most of the errors are misheard lyrics–like hearing "there’s a bathroom on the right" instead of "there’s a bad moon on the rise". He even makes mistakes where he substitutes in nonsense words, but he maintains the rhythm and metre.

But at a couple points, he completely loses all sense of the metre. One of those is the line: "… the lady from the provences who dress like a guy who doesn’t cry and the singurly abnormily the girl who never kissed".

I am inclined to speculate that the reason for this mistake is very different than for the other mistakes–something very different was processing in his mind that led to this mistake.

Regards,

G

Interesting thoughts there G.

The closest thing I have to a POI is Manalli and there’s a rumour that he might have had gender issues so in that respect I find your thought’s on this quite interesting. I do think though that he is a very unlikely Z suspect but he rather annoyingly fits into various aspects of Z discussion, this being one of them. I should point out though that he wasn’t in my mind when I started this thread. It simply was an observation based on what might be differences between the skeletons. I even think now that, that is tenuous but then so much of Z stuff is, you never know.

I agree with you on the aspect of maintaining rhythm when it comes to mis-hearing lyrics. Likewise your observation that Zodiac doesn’t do that at certain points in his Mikado rendition. Interesting that one those could be construed as being connected to gender.

I think the card itself may be a result of/influenced by this area. He sent it to Avery and (other members correct me here if need be) was it sent on the heels of Avery’s article about him possibly being a latent homosexual?

…
I think the card itself may be a result of/influenced by this area. He sent it to Avery and (other members correct me here if need be) was it sent on the heels of Avery’s article about him possibly being a latent homosexual?

Interesting point about the card being a response to Avery’s article about Z possibly being a latent homosexual.

Even though those were the famous days of the sexual revolution, they were just the beginning of a new awareness. The light was just beginning to peep through the cracks, so to speak. But medical and popular understanding of sexuality and gender issues were still in the Dark Ages at that time. One of the most bandied-about phrases at that time was "latent homosexual". Psychiatrists were using it to explain all kinds of behavior, and the media and general public caught on and began to use the term to account for just about every person who was a bit different.

For this reason, I have always discounted Avery’s conjecture as either misapplication of pop psychology, and attempt to be interesting, or perhaps as a provocation. So far, I have seen no strong evidence that Z has homosexual tendencies–it must be borne in mind that gender issues very often are separate from homosexuality–but it is very possible that Avery’s article did serve as a provocation.

In that case it makes perfect sense that Z’s would reply directly to Avery with a clue to his gender issues.

Nice catch, Trav.

G

D.G.9

WHAT OF THIS BOY WHO MYSTERIOUSLY DROWNED?
IS THIER A NEWS PAPER CHIPPING/PIC OF THE BOYS FACE?
AGE OF THE BOY.

p.s. Good find on page 8.

Returning to the theme of gender issues, I would like to offer these speculative thoughts:

The Bay area was most likely a magnet for people with gender issues to come from far and wide, just as it was for many young people attracted to the hippy movement, albeit for different reasons. As I understand it, San Francisco in the late 60’s and early 70’s would have been one of the places where it was possible to be different, even radically different.

If Z was gay or transgender or in anyway different sexually or by gender, there is a good chance that he suffered any level of abuse, both emotional and physical, at the hands of those around him: family, neighbors, schoolmates, workmates, and so on. The world can be cruel to those who are different today. In those days, it was many times worse. And the cruelty was often sanctioned by the authorities and the voice of morality. These people were often considered deviant, perverted, disgusting, sickos for being different. It was not so unusual for families to turn against a child who was not "normal".

If he were any of these types, and if he suffered as some of them have, it might not be a surprise if he grew up scarred and sporting some serious emotional problems. At the same time, such a young person might also have had a strong motive to escape small town wherever by going to the San Francisco area. For that matter, even somebody in their 30’s might choose to seek out San Francisco and the Bay area.

(Note: It is not my intention to argue that Z was from elsewhere. But the possibility seems plausible.)

If he was gay or transgendered, then it seems likely to me he would have spent a significant amount of time in and around the Tenderloin district. (I would be glad if some native San Franciscans confirmed or corrected these points.) The Tenderloin district was apparently one area where gays, transgendered people, transvestites and others coukd go and be more or less openly different, frequent clubs, etc. Pure speculation, of course, but perhaps that might explain Z’s presence in the (nearby?) Theater district by Paul Stine that fateful day.

What’s more, if he travelled in the circles of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered, that might also account for his presence in Vallejo on weekends. According to this wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California , Vallejo is known to have had a well-formed gay community, going back to the 1940’s and even earlier. and, as the wiki says, Vallejo was only a only a short drive or boat ride away from San Francisco. In that case, it would be easy to imagine Z either living there, or travelling there on weekends to clubs or to join in other activities.

Many have commented on Z’s presence out in the remote spots where young lovers go. But young lovers are not the only people who need to seek out remote parts. In a world that attacks people for being gay or different, unapproved varieties of love and sex both have to find hiding places. I can only suppose that people of the area who engaged in these "alternative" lifestyles were particularly knowledgeable about the remote sites. And they probably were very attentive to additional considerations, such as the comings and goings of police patrols and such. If a cop caught a young hetero couple making out, the consequences, beyond a little embarassment, was probably relatively benign. Whereas the consequences for somebody from the LGBT community of that day might have been far more painful.

In closing, I just want to reiterate that these thoughts are all speculative. But, speculation though they may be, I felt it was worth sharing because of their potential explanatory power, and for the fact that they might open up new, unexplored, directions for research.

Best regards,

G

I always thought the Castro was where gay people hung out in SF. Still, good post about the sexually confused, tormented mental state that may have given rise to anger and homicidal tendencies in Zodiac, G.

This brings to mind an alternative theory surrounding the Riverside desktop poem. What if Zodiac, if the author, wasn’t describing a murder, but the suppression, or symbolic slaying, of the ‘woman inside him’?

Funny how so many Zodiac suspects were gay. Allen, Gaikowski, Marshall, Kacynzski and goodness knows who else.

I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirely different.

Cross-dresser?

I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirely different.

Cross-dresser?

That thought had crossed my mind before as well but I’m not sure. Then again who knows? It would have to be a full time CD though in the context of the statement "the rest of the time". I think it’s just a statement to back up the disguise claims and those may or may not be true, ie they could have been made to distract LE from the possibility that the composite was worryingly accurate.

I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirely different.

Cross-dresser?

They found S/M darwings of Fred Manalli, he had drawn, where he named himself Freda, the feminine version of Fred.
can´t remember if he was also in some kind of womans clothing, but I think it was som kind of wipping situation, there was also drawings of SR murdervictim Kim Allen in some S/M bondage situation.
So FM might have been into cross-dressing.

I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing, the rest of the time I look entirely different.

Cross-dresser?

That thought had crossed my mind before as well but I’m not sure. Then again who knows? It would have to be a full time CD though in the context of the statement "the rest of the time". I think it’s just a statement to back up the disguise claims and those may or may not be true, ie they could have been made to distract LE from the possibility that the composite was worryingly accurate.

Exactly. I think in that case Zodiac would have had to be a woman, who in turn, dressed like a man.

Why? A friend of mine from high school has an older brother who is a cross-dresser. I have no clue what he looks like when he’s not in drag. Then again, he could have had a sex change for all I know.

So, I’m going to go ahead and call it….

Zodiac was a cross-dresser.

I have no idea if its true, I just felt like typing it.

That poses a problem for Fred. Zodiac could have had gender issues, maybe. But the SRHM, that guy did not. He knew what he wanted and that was to kill young women.

I can’t get from Z to SRHM. If Fred was Z, maybe he was not SRHM, he was just a fanboy. That would fit Z right there.