It was about time for my yearly foot-in-mouth post. Can’t seem to break the habit. Hopefully I can hold it to one for the year.

I heard from detectorall that the lie detector is not always reliable.

I heard from detectorall that the lie detector is not always reliable.

Hello,
And who is detectorall? Need a little more info. please!
Much Thanks, Zam*

Lie detector examinations are not admissible in a court of law for the reason that they are not reliable.

Anybody an idea why Z used double postage on the Vallejo, but not on the other two letters?

http://zodiackiller.com/VTHEnvelope.html
http://zodiackiller.com/ExaminerEnvelope.html
http://zodiackiller.com/ChronicleEnvelope.html

Sort of doesn’t make any sense, does it? Or was it the way to Vallejo that had caused extra costs for mailing?

QT

It is odd QT…sending a letter to Vallejo wouldn’t have costed any more than sending to the other 2, so why he did this doesn’t make sense to me.

ETA: The only thing I can figure out is that this is the one that contained the "beginning" of the cipher….maybe that was his way of saying start with this cipher.

They’re all posted from S.F. Maybe Z was a bit dim in that regard and figured it would cost more to mail a letter to Vallejo…

Probably not. No idea why he did it like that. He habitually used excessive postage, for some reason.

The Times-Herald letter was possibly the last letter written of the three (there is some discussion of this on Tom’s board – http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/zl/793.html). If that’s true, Z may have just thrown the last remaining stamps left on the roll onto the envelope.

Anybody an idea why Z used double postage on the Vallejo, but not on the other two letters?

http://zodiackiller.com/VTHEnvelope.html
http://zodiackiller.com/ExaminerEnvelope.html
http://zodiackiller.com/ChronicleEnvelope.html

Sort of doesn’t make any sense, does it? Or was it the way to Vallejo that had caused extra costs for mailing?

QT

The Vallejo Times-Herald, from beginning and through mergers, went through 4 different publishers:
1. A.B. Gibson
2. George Roe
3. Robert W. Walker
4. Luther Earl Gibson

The San Francisco Examiner, from beginning, went through 2 different publishers:
1. William Moss
2. George/William Randolph Hearst

The San Francisco Chronicle, since the death of its founder, went through 2 different publishers:
1. George Toland Cameron
2. Charles de Young Theiriot

Note:

In the case of VTH, A.B. Gibson & George Roe, began the paper. This why I have A.B. Gibson listed. A.B. Gibson really didn’t last with the paper long. On up to the sale of the paper to, Robert W. Walker, George Roe ran the paper.

In the case of the SF Examiner, the SF Examiner, technically went through three publishers: Moss, George and William R Hearst. George and William R Hearst are father and son. They are immediate family members, from the same blood line and thus, one publisher.

In the case of the SF Chronicle it becomes a bit tricky. The SF Chronicle has always been family owned. It began with Charles & Michael de Young and was ran by Michael de Young until his death in 1925. One of the reasons why the Chronicle stayed family owned for as long as it has was due to an inclusion in Michael de Young’s will that essentially stated the paper would only be run by family members until the last of his four daughter’s passed away. George Toland Cameron was married to daughter Margaret de Young and ran the paper from the time of the founders death until his death in 1955. Charles de Young Thieriot was the son of another daughter named Kathleen. Charles de Young Theiriot was publisher at time of Zodiac killings.

Given the Zodiac’s penchant for writing editors and, newspapers, I see no reason why the Zodiac wouldn’t think to include the publishers.

PS.

I had a post in "Ask a member" but deleted it. My question pertained to the editors of the three papers and wondered if anyone knew who they were. If anyone has this answer please reply.

Added:

I believe Scott Newhall was the editor of the Chronicle.
Wyman Riley was editor of Vallejo Times-Herald.
Unable to find editor of San Francisco Examiner beyond Jack Doughty in 1967.

Soze

Soze, I have a few vintage copies of the Chronicle and the Examiner. Unfortunately the Editorial page, where the publisher/editor info is located, is not in any of my copies due to the fact that the seller removed the comics and the editorial page was on the back of the comics page. None of the three newspapers for 1969/1970 are at any of the archived newspaper sites except for the year 1974 of the VTH. You can do a pay search for articles but that’s all you get, the articles, not the pages of the complete newspaper.

The next time I go to Santa Rosa I can go to the library and look up the info in the microfilms. I for sure can get the Chronicle because they have that on microfilm. They do not have the Examiner but the Chronicle and Examiner published jointly on Sundays so I can look in one of the Sunday papers and see if the info you want is there. I’m not sure when I will go to Santa Rosa in the near future but I do have some Dr. appointments there at the end of October.

Here is the info from the January 1, 1974 edition of the VTH. I found a recent VTH article online recalling the day the Kennedy died and one person remembers being in editor Wyman Riley’s office when the news of Kennedy’s death came over the teletype. So it’s a pretty good bet that Riley was the editor in 1969.

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/articl … /131116810

Maybe he ran out of stamps.

I believe Scott Newhall was the editor of the Chronicle.
Wyman Riley was editor of Vallejo Times-Herald.
Unable to find editor of San Francisco Examiner beyond Jack Doughty in 1967.

Soze

"Riley was the first chairman of the Vallejo Chamber of Commerce Maritime Academy Committee. He has been a member (..) of the Solano County Probation Committee since 1954" (..) member of the St. Mary’s College Alumni Association (..)."

https://csum-dspace.calstate.edu/bitstr … sequence=2

To the editor..

Here is a 722p interview with Scott Newhall, one may want to search for specific terms e.g. Vallejo, Herb Caen, etc..a lot of background information such as the relationship between Herb Caen and Paul Clifford Smith in it (‘shared some equal psychic problems’..).
http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/r … whrich.pdf

QT

Riley was member of the St Mary’s college alumni association? As in St Mary’s college in Contra Costa? Now that’s interesting.

Don’t know anything about this Paul Clifford Smith and will need to look into that. I will tell you something I found interesting about Scott Newhall. Syar industries up the road from lake Herman was founded in the 40’s. The people who owned the land prior to Syar was a family with the last name of Hastings. They leased out the land for the purpose of mineral recovery and it was known as the Hasting’s mine. This is not to be confused with the Hasting’s mine that had a massive explosion killing 120 something people and owned by the Victor-American fuel company backed by Rockefeller of Standard Oil fame. This Hasting’s mine was leased out to the White Investment Company owned by the George Almer Newhall family. George Almer Newhall was 3rd grand uncle to Scott Newhall. I don’t know, specifically, when the white investment company reached its demise but it was run by the newhall family as a whole until that time. I suspect that it was in the 30’s. Some time around that time there was an explosion at the mine that killed two people. This mine explosion drained the lake at blue Rock springs that was known at the time as Vallejo Sulfur Springs. An earlier name was White Sulfur Springs. The location of the springs is where the golf course of Vallejo (the one named by the Zodiac) sits today.

While the two Hasting’s mines should not be confused with each other in terms of California, given Rockefeller, I wouldn’t be surprised if the two Hasting’s mines were connected via the same Hasting’s family.

Correction: I stated above that George Almer Newhall was Scott’s 3rd grand uncle. I had it in my system wrong. He is actually Scott’s 2nd grand uncle.

Soze

Wyman Riley’s birth name was Thomas Wyman Riley born February 9, 1915 in King County Washington to Fenwick Centennial Riley and Marguerite Grace Daly.

Riley married Phyllis Marjorie Western in 1938. She also went by her middle name, Marjorie.

On the 1940 US Census they were both living in Napa and had a 9 month old daughter. He was a news editor on that census and it gives his place of residence in 1935 as St. Mary’s CA.

The 1969 Vallejo Polk’s Directory lists Wyman and Marjorie as living at 720 Georgia St Vallejo.

Thomas Wyman Riley died October 17, 1988 in Solano County CA.

Phyllis Marjorie (Western) Riley died September 9, 2009 in Vallejo CA.

Wyman Riley’s birth name was Thomas Wyman Riley born February 9, 1915 in King County Washington to Fenwick Centennial Riley and Marguerite Grace Daly.

Just for reference purpose I believe the city was Seattle. Thank you for mentioning Fenwick’s middle name. I have been making the assumption that his middle name was Charles. His father had the same name but with the middle name Charles. His father, by the way, was from Chippewa Wisconsin. I found some Riley’s in that area during the time of Fenwick’s father’s birth, unfortunately, i don’t know who Fenwick’s father’s father was. I have an idea from deductive reasoning but nothing as fact. It would be very important to me if you somehow know that answer or are capable of locating it.

Riley married Phyllis Marjorie Western in 1938. She also went by her middle name, Marjorie.

On the 1940 US Census they were both living in Napa and had a 9 month old daughter. He was a news editor on that census and it gives his place of residence in 1935 as St. Mary’s CA.

The 1969 Vallejo Polk’s Directory lists Wyman and Marjorie as living at 720 Georgia St Vallejo.

Thomas Wyman Riley died October 17, 1988 in Solano County CA.

Phyllis Marjorie (Western) Riley died September 9, 2009 in Vallejo CA.

One of Riley’s daughter’s, may be the one you mention, incidentally, was living in San Rafael at some point. Sorry, right now when it comes to Riley, I am only making mental notes and not writing any of this down. I probably need to start. Anyway, I just thought that was interesting.

I am curious:

I am making the assumption here that there was no St. Mary’s California as it relates to a city. Obviously the reference would be to the college. If I am not mistaken Riley went to college some place else and so did his wife. Why does he have his address as the college?

Soze