Good discussion about the casings, bullet trajectories and body positions and possible attack scenarios here.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/mess … 1169268360

Yes, a nice thread, and "Stew" seems a switched-on guy nuh?
But…. "The location of the bullet shells almost certainly proves that he didn’t run after BLJ. Not one shell was found west of David Faraday’s body." That seems to refer to the sketches, which show the cases lying to the East.
Whereas the photograph Tahoe posted in this thread seems to show them placed quite differently. To the West. Which is very interesting. No?

Good discussion about the casings, bullet trajectories and body positions and possible attack scenarios here.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/discus/mess … 1169268360

Yes, a nice thread, and "Stew" seems a switched-on guy nuh?
But…. "The location of the bullet shells almost certainly proves that he didn’t run after BLJ. Not one shell was found west of David Faraday’s body." That seems to refer to the sketches, which show the cases lying to the East.
Whereas the photograph Tahoe posted in this thread seems to show them placed quite differently. To the West. Which is very interesting. No?

Yes that is interesting and confusing and annoying etc etc. I hadn’t picked up on that so…..hmmm.

Next thing well find is that in 1968 someone in riverside boughtened [sic] the world’s highest power sniper rifle capable of hitting a target in Vallejo but only takes 22 longs. The rounds also being remotely controlled, so they could chase you around bit first.

It’s interesting confusing annoying and odd, Trav, because it makes it look as if the killer shot David then trailed after Betty shooting her in the back, the way those cases SEEM to go. As one might expect. Contrary to the sketches. Which would mean that he didn’t need to be a good shot – just that he’d need to be able to keep up with Betty. And it would explain the contact-wound nature of at least one of the shots she incurred, as he caught up with her. Because he was close. Really close. And it would rule out the need for an electronic gunsight, of course. (Ahem.) Maybe? (What do you guys think?)

I’ve another one for ya’s. On Google Earth the pump station road leaves Lake Herman road just about due South. On the crime scene sketches it shows the same road as oriented South East. That’s a bit odd. Does that mean the police didn’t know where their compass rose should have been drawn? Which way North was? That can’t be right, since Zodiac agrees with them – 45 degrees off – saying "feet to the west". Or not. I’m confused.

I think this might be the most useful of the sketches. Maybe?
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/galler … fullsize=1

Yeah you’re right to say maybe. The information may be correct but the sketch appears to be just that, in both cases, a ‘sketch’. Look at the distances on the one you just posted the link to. 28′ 6" from the right rear fender to BLJ’s head, a distance on the sketch that is equal to or greater than the distance from the front right fender to the telegraph pole yet the listed distance is 52′ 3" ??? WTF? that’s nearly twice the distance.

"The difference in the distance between the two cars could be explained as an honest mistake, not paying attention, etc,however, the difference between 3-4 feet & 10 feet (as we see him state in two diff reports)is major. One of the statements would totally clash with the scene evidence. For me, the biggest problem or inconsistency by him is his lack of telling the police on 12/21/68, 9 hours after the attack, that he thought he heard a shot after he went by. He was standing at the scene of the crime with chalk outlines on the ground but he doesnt remember to mentiona gunshot? Then he suddenly remembers it 3 days later in his 2nd statement? I just cant buy it."

One of the statements he makes that did make me raise an eyebrow was that when he drove past and the two vehicles were apparently parked in the entrance area, nobody was visible in either vehicle, nor was anybody out in or around the gravel turn in area itself outside of the vehicle’s. Well if Zodiac was on scene at this point, where were the two victims? Had he ordered Faraday out was about to shoot when he noticed lights approaching and told David to ‘get down’ and ordered Betty to duck down also? I would think that it would look far more suspicious driving past seeing two vehicles parked there, at least one with it’s light’s on, and nobody in sight anywhere. And If Owen really did hear a gunshot shortly after passing, then assuming that what most people assume happened actually did happen, that being that Z shot David once in the head, which cause Betty to instinctively run for her life, then Owen should have reported hearing a single shot, two or three seconds gap, then 5 shots in fairly rapid succession.
I mean If you see what appears to be two abandoned vehicles, or at least vehicles that have no occupants visible or near them, followed shortly after by the sound of a gun shot, wouldn’t that make you question if all was not well back at that turning?

Good Points. One thing to note, people some people theorize that when Owen went by, that Zodiac already had the kids out of the car and held at gunpoint out of sight. Either that, or that the young couple was hunched down in their seat necking,and Z simply slouched down in his seat to get out of sight. Well here are two major problems with that:

1-If you are the kids,and you are being held, as soon as you see the headlights,and the car, thats going to be your best chance to make a break for it,I cant imagine that they wouldnt try and escape at that moment. PLUS, thats not even what the evdence seems to indicate. All of the evidence shows that Faraday slid out of the car on the pass side, and was immediately shot,sending Betty running for her life. So to me, that shoots down the theory that they were ducked down in their seats, or being held out of sight.

2- Regarding the possibility that the Kids were slouched down in their seat necking,and Z simply slouched down himself to stay out of view,this also presents problems. Other witnesses that night who saw the two kids said that they saw the kids,and that they were never hunched down in the seat. Also, if Zodiac was there hunched down in his seat, he could be taking a giant chance. For all he knew,if he ducked down, the approaching car could have got his plate# or could have even been a cop. Z would be taking a major chance choosing to carry on his attack.

The problem is in what Owen states(after suddenly remembering 3 days after his original statement),that about a 1/4 mile down the road, he heard a shot. Lets say Owen was cruising at 45MPH, to go 1/2 a mile, would take him about 40 seconds to hear a shot. Count to 40 seconds, think about it for a second. That’s not alot of time for Z to get out, confront the couple,try and get them out,and then finally shoot.

All of this combines to still make me question what Owen claims he saw or didnt see. I simply have a hard time accepting it, and if he’s lying,he’s probably Zodiac,as I said, he is the ONLY person known for a fact to be there after the kids were seen alive, and before they were found dead.

Yeah you’re right to say maybe. The information may be correct but the sketch appears to be just that, in both cases, a ‘sketch’. Look at the distances on the one you just posted the link to. 28′ 6" from the right rear fender to BLJ’s head, a distance on the sketch that is equal to or greater than the distance from the front right fender to the telegraph pole yet the listed distance is 52′ 3" ??? WTF? that’s nearly twice the distance.

Trav, absolutely, maybe. Yes it’s a sketch, not drawn to scale; it’s also quite a bad one. It doesn’t use either the triangulation or compass-point method correctly. Nor does it show the image oriented to North correctly. Ooooer!
(I’ve been reading up a bit. Here: http://www.bcps.org/offices/science/sec … Sketch.pdf – there are plenty of other places, if you like wiki better, for instance. Fascinating stuff, and it talks about a two-stage sketch process.)
But that’s not the point!
Point is, the compass rose has been drawn badly, and doesn’t line up properly with north by about 45 degrees. Which is odd.

The thing is, how come Zodiac made the same mistake?
I expect it’s because Betty Lou’s feet actually WERE pointing to the West, eh? Even though this makes it look as if they weren’t. Curious.

Re: these other good points:
1) "All of the evidence shows that Faraday slid out of the car on the pass side" – well, maybe. Or he got out on the drivers side, told Betty to lock that door after him, walked round the car to inspect a bullet hole through the glass, and got shot.
2) Their seats were recliners and were tilted back, I’ve read. Makes sense.

Owen could have heard that first shot aimed at the car from 20+ feet away (measured from David’s head on one of the crime scene sketches strangely. And wrongly. And pointlessly) – but I doubt it personally. I think he was just trying to be "helpful", as witnesses sometimes do.

"Owen could have heard that first shot aimed at the car from 20+ feet away (measured from David’s head on one of the crime scene sketches strangely. And wrongly. And pointlessly) – but I doubt it personally. I think he was just trying to be "helpful", as witnesses sometimes do."

While that could certainly be the case, a witness is going to mention that helpful info while he is at the crime scene standing over the chalk outlines of two bodies 9 hours after the double shooting, he isn’t going to forget a major fact like hearing a gunshot until 3 days later in his 2nd report, especially a witness like James Owen. Owen was a supervisor at Humble Oil and had just retired from 20 years in the Air Force, so a guy in that position, used to dealing with details and reports should not omit a major and simple fact like that.

Don’t get me wrong, He could be 100% innocent, but as the only person known for a fact to be at the scene during the few minute window when it happened, and with multiple inconsostencies, he should have been properly ruled out and that did not happen. Never took his prints or writing sample. They tested his rifle but later found out a rifle was not used. And they allowed Owen himself to question a potential suspect and report back to them. There are glaring issues here. They should have focused on him and ruled him out properly.

Morf – as you say, being helpful – and/or stupid – can make you look guilty, can’t it, and either way yes, Owen should have been properly ruled out.

BTW I’m still trying to figure out which way is up, ha ha, with my little composite Google and crime scene image, above. Please excuse me if it keeps changing while photobucket attempts to undo all my good work. (You haven’t commented on it. I have such tangential concerns these days! It’s worrying.)

"BTW I’m still trying to figure out which way is up, ha ha, with my little composite Google and crime scene image, above. Please excuse me if it keeps changing while photobucket attempts to undo all my good work. (You haven’t commented on it. I have such tangential concerns these days! It’s worrying.)"

Sorry, I’m more focused on the people at the scene and the possible Scenarios As opposed To the measurements, Not to say That those are not important

Gotcha. I’m focused on "feet to the West", the trail of shells, and there being no need for a "pencil flashlight".
You know how it is.

I certainly don’t want to take this topic off course, so back to the flashlight/penlight scenarios. I certainly think he could have used his headlights and or a flashlight as he did at BRS. If the penlight was so great, why did he not use it at BRS? I think he was lying about it

Me too.
I wonder why? He could have said "I had my headlights on" could he not? Bogus!
Perhaps he wanted to portray himself as a funky super-villain, full of tricks. Perhaps he wanted to have the police chasing after pen-light sales, the way they did after the shoes at Berryessa. Give ’em some bussywork to do.

Well to get back to the pencil light.

Many times I have seen it said that the 5 shots that hit Betty Lou in the back did so with extremely good accuracy as the 5 bullets entered in a similar area, or a ‘cluster effect’. This again, if you pardon the abbreviated expression, is BS. The truth is, if Zodiac was using a laser like beam to pinpoint a target, then the results were anything but a cluster of entry wounds on her body.

Three of the five shots hit around the upper right hand side of her torso. One at the shoulder itself, the second hit to the right and lower down by several inches. and the third almost in the upper middle of her back slightly to the right of her Spine.
The remaining two are pretty close in their proximity to each other, with one striking her in the lower right center of her back just to the right of her spine, with the final bullet to the right of the previous just above the pelvic hip area.

Not going to make the Navy Seal’s Sniper team anytime soon, is he?

Trying to recall but I think it was that Z in the 5 shots he hit Betty Lou 3 or 4 out of the 5 hit vital organs, thus making one believe that Z was some sort of great marksman. It could have been he placed the first shot as a kill shot and the rest he did while she was down.

Trying to recall but I think it was that Z in the 5 shots he hit Betty Lou 3 or 4 out of the 5 hit vital organs, thus making one believe that Z was some sort of great marksman. It could have been he placed the first shot as a kill shot and the rest he did while she was down.

Well combining the two statements there would mean that while Zodiac has given us reason to believe he is the the best marksman in the United States of America, he failed to aim and shoot the fleeing girl in the one place that would instantly guarantee she would not get any further, that being a head shot.