Its interesting for sure. The fact is, Redlands in basically San Bernardino. What do we know about San Bernardino as it relates to Zodiac?

1- Its next to Riverside
2-Kathleen Johns was driving up from there when she had her incident
3-Suspect, ‘ZODE’, lived there and went to school there, and he called himself ZODIAC years before there ever was a Zodiac Killer.

Also important to point out, this letter was received during the 3 year hiatus of Z not writing letters in SF. Did he come back home to the Riverside/San Bernardino area???
I think a lot of attention gets focused on Riverside, and not enough on San Bernardino, which is a mere 10 miles away. It’s certainly possible that this could be Z.
I am going to do some digging into San Bernardino a bit more, as most of my attention in Southern CA goes to Riverside. Maybe I can do an FBI FOIA request for this letter.
I know of one suspect in particular that last used an address in Vallejo in 1974, at which point, he moved back down to the San Bernardino area got divorced in Riverside, April 1974.and remarried in San Bernardino 1976

Its interesting for sure. The fact is, Redlands in basically San Bernardino. What do we know about San Bernardino as it relates to Zodiac?

1- Its next to Riverside
2-Kathleen Johns was driving up from there when she had her incident
3-Suspect, ‘ZODE’, lived there and went to school there, and he called himself ZODIAC years before there ever was a Zodiac Killer.

Also important to point out, this letter was received during the 3 year hiatus of Z not writing letters in SF. Did he come back home to the Riverside/San Bernardino area???
I think a lot of attention gets focused on Riverside, and not enough on San Bernardino, which is a mere 10 miles away. It’s certainly possible that this could be Z.
I am going to do some digging into San Bernardino a bit more, as most of my attention in Southern CA goes to Riverside. Maybe I can do an FBI FOIA request for this letter.
I know of one suspect in particular that last used an address in Vallejo in 1974, at which point, he moved back down to the San Bernardino area got divorced in Riverside, April 1974.and remarried in San Bernardino 1976

Would love to see this letter. I would really like to find out who the target was since they were not named in the story. While this seems out of sorts for Z, extortion and all, the letter writer would have to know that a million bucks at this time was not exactly feasible for most. Makes me wonder if the target was a wealthy person in the area.

I doubt that if it was z, he even wanted the money, but rather the attention.
I placed an FOIA request for this letter, will likely take weeks to get a response

I doubt that if it was z, he even wanted the money, but rather the attention.
I placed an FOIA request for this letter, will likely take weeks to get a response

Elizabeth Ernstein went missing from Redlands on March 18, 1968 I was reading James G posts he sounds guilty as hell. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showth … March-1968 https://www.facebook.com/james.gale.161?fref=ts https://myspace.com/arthurkingharrington/photos

Well I’m Not sure if the boyfriend was guilty as hell. There’s no evidence against him. I highly doubt he would be posting on websleuths if he was guilty jmo. Sounds like whoever abducted her had a car to transport her from Redlands to the location her body was found further up north. Sounds like someone abducted her when she was walking home through the orange groves from the middle school. I think she only lived about 2 blocks away from the school according to one report.

I do find it curious her body was buried. That shows the killer didn’t want her body to be found so he could feel big about it. He felt he had to "hide" her. So it could have been someone she knew bc they felt some sort of guilt about it. Or the killer simply could have wanted to hide the body so he could visit it later. Who knows.

Maybe her BF, her crazy sister, maybe a random guy who picked her up hitchhiking, or maybe a psychiatric patient her mother had worked with in social services…. Who knows. Though if the BF said he hitchhiked – it’s likely he didn’t have the car to abduct/move her further north.

Makes you wonder if Ross Sullivan and Mrs. Ernstein ever knew of each other given that Mrs. E worked in psychiatric social services. Maybe if Ross went to Patton State Hospital he met Ernstein’s crazy older sister.

Additionally, per the bomb letter, Redlands is the part of town around here where money can be found. Old Victorian houses. A nice downtown marketplace that is straight up leave it to beaver like. I go there every week.

In December of 1968 the Ernstein’s were still gaining national media attention to find their missing daughter (who may or may not have already been murdered and buried in a shallow grave by this time. Investigators will not reveal the cause of death).

"Mrs. Ernstein told a newspaper in December of 1968: ‘I can face the daytime better than the night,’ adding, ‘At night, I find myself asking: is she safe? Is she warm? Is she being fed? And finally…is she alive?’"

"She was wearing a khaki jacket, blue dress, tennis shoes, and a gold necklace with a blue star (Star of David or hexagram maybe?), according to reports at the time.

Her walk should have been a peaceful one – she lived two miles away, and her closest route was through an orange grove.

But Ernstein never returned home.

Her disappearance was one that would haunt Redlands for decades. Mrs Ernstein once said the months of uncertainty ‘are the deepest anguish a person can go through. It’s a shock so deep – you become wooden.’"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … grove.html

Gosh what big news to come from such a small town as Mentone near Redlands. It’s still small!

"Mr Ernstein worked as a chemical engineer for Lockheed, and his wife worked as a psychiatric social worker." Hmmm.

Again, her older sister was said to be "crazy" and went to Patton State Hospital. Could the older sis have known Ross? Could Ross have known the mother through psychiatric social services? Patton State Hospital is very close to Redlands… Creepy.

I wouldn’t assume that this was not a real communication from Zodiac just yet. I agree with Morf that if it was from Z ,it wasn’t for the money but the attention he would get.
As far as thinking that Zodiac never use extortion before, It seems that he did on April 29th 1970 , in a letter sent from SF. He said : If you don’t want me to have this blast, you must do two things. 1 Tell everyone about the bus bomb with all the details. 2 I would like to see some buttons wondering about town.

He also mentioned having a "blast"( double meaning ? ). He had bombs on his mind during that time. His 11th letter June 29th 1970 had a map and code showing where he put a bomb that would explode in the fall.

Zodiac has a habit of writing on anniversary’s, July 31st 1971 is the two year anniversary of his very first known Zodiac correspondence July 31 1969.
July 26th 1970 was his got a little list letter, two days before that he wrote about K. Johns. The month of July seemed to be a month that stirred him up ?

I have always felt that the March 13th 1971 letter sent from Pleasanton Ca. ,was a letter he dropped off on his way to Southern Ca. He wanted to be there to read about it on the news. Even though he claimed that he wrote to the LA Times , because they didn’t bury him on the back pages, I think it was because he was headed there.
It was also the anniversary of Vallejo’s Toni Anstey’s murder 1970.
A post card about victim number 12 was sent a week later March 22 1971 ,the one year anniversary of K Johns. He either came back to mail it , or had someone else mail it for him.

It is not a very long drive from SF bay area to southern Ca., I use to drive it often. I lived in Anaheim in 1962 to late 1963.
The cost to fly back then was only $12.00 each way.

There are probably a few more Zodiac letters that we haven’t heard about yet. Many that were thought to be a copy cat , that could be genuine . ( I don’t trust the so called experts )

The har-har for me is z like, I think he has a good laugh after everything he does .
If you reverse the letters h a r to "R" A "H" you have one of my poi’s initials .

Morf, when you do your FOIA request, do you ask for an "exact" copy? That way they won’t redact anything. I waited months for some information I wanted, everything that I needed was redacted. That was when I found out that I should have asked for an exact copy.

Odd thing about this letter though….why would someone make a ransom for a bomb in a house set to go off later that night? It isn’t like there is a threat to the people that lived there as they had a letter saying there was a bomb in the house so all they had to do was leave the house. There was never really a threat to anyone. I would love to see the letter if someone gets a copy.

Odd thing about this letter though….why would someone make a ransom for a bomb in a house set to go off later that night? It isn’t like there is a threat to the people that lived there as they had a letter saying there was a bomb in the house so all they had to do was leave the house. There was never really a threat to anyone. I would love to see the letter if someone gets a copy.

If it was zodiac, he loves the idea that he could spook the people living there in thinking that they were targeted. Zodiac has made threats before that he didn’t go through with. It is all a part of a game to him and the attention that he gets from the media.

I am dealing with Someone who has the same sort of mind set, he threatens me yet I am still here. Why ? Because he enjoys the mind game, killing me would be the end of his game, at least with me.
I would be very interested to see the letter and find out about the people who lived there, I believe that there are clues hidden in everything that Zodiac has written.

Odd thing about this letter though….why would someone make a ransom for a bomb in a house set to go off later that night? It isn’t like there is a threat to the people that lived there as they had a letter saying there was a bomb in the house so all they had to do was leave the house. There was never really a threat to anyone. I would love to see the letter if someone gets a copy.

If it was zodiac, he loves the idea that he could spook the people living there in thinking that they were targeted. Zodiac has made threats before that he didn’t go through with. It is all a part of a game to him and the attention that he gets from the media.

I am dealing with Someone who has the same sort of mind set, he threatens me yet I am still here. Why ? Because he enjoys the mind game, killing me would be the end of his game, at least with me.
I would be very interested to see the letter and find out about the people who lived there, I believe that there are clues hidden in everything that Zodiac has written.

Makes sense.

And yeah, I would like to find out who lived at the residence….I would really like to know this.

Would be interesting indeed to find out who received the letter and IF they have any notable connections to Elizabeth Ernstein or her family (or if the family that received the letter had any connections to the POIs that interest many Zodiaphiles.)

I wouldn’t assume that this was not a real communication from Zodiac just yet. I agree with Morf that if it was from Z ,it wasn’t for the money but the attention he would get.
As far as thinking that Zodiac never use extortion before, It seems that he did on April 29th 1970 , in a letter sent from SF. He said : If you don’t want me to have this blast, you must do two things. 1 Tell everyone about the bus bomb with all the details. 2 I would like to see some buttons wondering about town.

He also mentioned having a "blast"( double meaning ? ). He had bombs on his mind during that time. His 11th letter June 29th 1970 had a map and code showing where he put a bomb that would explode in the fall.

Zodiac has a habit of writing on anniversary’s, July 31st 1971 is the two year anniversary of his very first known Zodiac correspondence July 31 1969.
July 26th 1970 was his got a little list letter, two days before that he wrote about K. Johns. The month of July seemed to be a month that stirred him up ?

I have always felt that the March 13th 1971 letter sent from Pleasanton Ca. ,was a letter he dropped off on his way to Southern Ca. He wanted to be there to read about it on the news. Even though he claimed that he wrote to the LA Times , because they didn’t bury him on the back pages, I think it was because he was headed there.
It was also the anniversary of Vallejo’s Toni Anstey’s murder 1970.
A post card about victim number 12 was sent a week later March 22 1971 ,the one year anniversary of K Johns. He either came back to mail it , or had someone else mail it for him.

It is not a very long drive from SF bay area to southern Ca., I use to drive it often. I lived in Anaheim in 1962 to late 1963.
The cost to fly back then was only $12.00 each way.

There are probably a few more Zodiac letters that we haven’t heard about yet. Many that were thought to be a copy cat , that could be genuine . ( I don’t trust the so called experts )

The har-har for me is z like, I think he has a good laugh after everything he does .
If you reverse the letters h a r to "R" A "H" you have one of my poi’s initials .

Morf, when you do your FOIA request, do you ask for an "exact" copy? That way they won’t redact anything. I waited months for some information I wanted, everything that I needed was redacted. That was when I found out that I should have asked for an exact copy.

Curiously enough, March 13 is the anniversary date of RCC. They celebrate their college and its "birthday" on March 13th. Could he have been hoping to hint to RCC with that date and sending the letter, in your theory, on his way to Southern California?

Would be interesting indeed to find out who received the letter and IF they have any notable connections to Elizabeth Ernstein or her family (or if the family that received the letter had any connections to the POIs that interest many Zodiaphiles.)

Yes exactly ! What if that letter was from Zodiac and he had worked for this family, he was fired or had a disagreement? It would be interesting to see what the occupation was of the head of that household ?

I still believe that Zodiac worked in construction , mainly because there was construction going on at or next to most of the crime scenes.
The Donna Lass post card about victim number 12 showed construction workers, I think it was a bit of a clue to perhaps his occupation and where he put her body ?

Construction was going on at RCC when Cheri Jo was killed.
If you believe the Santa Barbara case was Zodiac, there was work being done at UC Santa Barbara at that time as well and it was only a couple of miles from that crime scene.
New homes were being built in Vallejo in 1969. Although I do believe that was where Zodiac was living at that time anyway. He knew that area too well not to have lived there or worked. Serial killer usually start out in their comfort zone ," if" he truly started out in southern Calif., then he had lived there before moving to northern Calif.

There were homes in the PH area that were being renovated in Oct 1969.

Lake Berryessa is the only crime scene that I haven’t been able to find any construction near by at that time, unless work was being done to some of the homes in the Monticello area that had been previously destroyed ? I need to check for any building permits in that area for Sept.1969.

(Sorry I got carried away, I have a hard time making a statement without going into detail.)

I hope Morf is able to get the FOIA report back soon, then we can do what we do and investigate it to the fullest.

Would be interesting indeed to find out who received the letter and IF they have any notable connections to Elizabeth Ernstein or her family (or if the family that received the letter had any connections to the POIs that interest many Zodiaphiles.)

Yes exactly ! What if that letter was from Zodiac and he had worked for this family, he was fired or had a disagreement? It would be interesting to see what the occupation was of the head of that household ?

I still believe that Zodiac worked in construction , mainly because there was construction going on at or next to most of the crime scenes.
The Donna Lass post card about victim number 12 showed construction workers, I think it was a bit of a clue to perhaps his occupation and where he put her body ?

Construction was going on at RCC when Cheri Jo was killed.
If you believe the Santa Barbara case was Zodiac, there was work being done at UC Santa Barbara at that time as well and it was only a couple of miles from that crime scene.
New homes were being built in Vallejo in 1969. Although I do believe that was where Zodiac was living at that time anyway. He knew that area too well not to have lived there or worked. Serial killer usually start out in their comfort zone ," if" he truly started out in southern Calif., then he had lived there before moving to northern Calif.

There were homes in the PH area that were being renovated in Oct 1969.

Lake Berryessa is the only crime scene that I haven’t been able to find any construction near by at that time, unless work was being done to some of the homes in the Monticello area that had been previously destroyed ? I need to check for any building permits in that area for Sept.1969.

(Sorry I got carried away, I have a hard time making a statement without going into detail.)

I hope Morf is able to get the FOIA report back soon, then we can do what we do and investigate it to the fullest.

What interests me is if we go back to the "Sandy" days we found that one of the men interviewed worked in some groves inland. Elizabeth lived among the orange groves. Her house was in an orange grove. Maybe her murderer had a similar occupation.

Edit: seeing now he worked in orchards. Last name Gill. He was cleared. Though I do wonder if he was involved in some capacity… Providing the murder weapon to the murderer maybe. Also how did the murderer know about his shack and that it was vacant? Seems like Gill had shacks all over the place. Am I the only one who finds it odd that 10 days after Gill’s death a sheriff announced that the domingos and Edwards murders were likely the work of the zodiac?

http://mk-zodiac.com/sandy1.html

"Wednesday, December 2, 1964

Gill was arrested by Officer James Picco near his shack on East Warren Street in Santa Ana.

Gill was considered to be a suspect for the murders of Domingos and Edwards and the murders of Swindle and Swindle at San Diego.

Gill was also wanted for pawning stolen guns in San Francisco in 1964.

Gill was taken to Santa Barbara for questioning.

Gill admitted building and living in the driftwood shack at Gaviota Beach.

Gill explained that he was working at an orchard in San Jose on Tuesday, June 4, 1963. (He had already moved to San Jose at that time.)

Thursday, December 3, 1964

Gill took a lie detector test, administered by William Cummings, but the results were inconclusive.

Friday, December 4, 1964

Gill was cleared as a suspect for the murders after the investigators verified his alibis.

Friday, November 3, 1972

Gill died in the County of San Bernardino (the same county where Redlands is and the bomb letter were left about a year before)

Monday, November 13, 1972

Carpenter hinted that there was "other evidence which I am not at liberty to disclose at this time"."

Also:

"Friday, October 25, 1963

As the investigation of the murders of Domingos and Edwards continued, the investigators searched for a vagrant who witnesses had seen using a rifle and living in the driftwood shack at Gaviota Beach several weeks before the murders.

Composite drawings were done to assist in the search for this suspect.

George Edward Gill was identified as the vagrant and a warrant was issued for his arrest as a possible suspect in connection with the murders of Domingos and Edwards.

Gill was 50 years old (born October 25, 1913, in South Dakota).

Gill had been in the Army from 1943 to 1945 and was honorably discharged after he injured his back.

Gill had a wife and son whose whereabouts were unknown."

I agree that most of the crime scenes had construction going on nearby and I’ve often wondered about that angle. . You might find it interesting that around the time Lass disappeared there was major construction going on the 50.