I was denied this I may try again.

"Butte tel" ?

Does that mean a call from Butte, Montana??? Butte is 37 miles from Deer Lodge.

I was denied this I may try again.

"Butte tel" ?

Does that mean a call from Butte, Montana??? Butte is 37 miles from Deer Lodge.

Butte figures in some names in California as well. For exmple, Butte City (formerly plain ol’ Butte) and Butte County.

G

I was denied this I may try again.

"Butte tel" ?

Does that mean a call from Butte, Montana??? Butte is 37 miles from Deer Lodge.

Was that by the FBI AK? What I’m asking is do they have copies? Would San Jose PD have the originals?

In 1969 the FBI field office in Montana was in Butte!

So you have reintrigued me Trav.

Yes I was denied by FBI so I will retry and also do San Jose PD.

In 1969 the FBI field office in Montana was in Butte!

So you have reintrigued me Trav.

Yes I was denied by FBI so I will retry and also do San Jose PD.

That’s brilliant AK. Thank you and bon chance.

I was denied this I may try again.

"Butte tel" ?

Does that mean a call from Butte, Montana??? Butte is 37 miles from Deer Lodge.

Butte figures in some names in California as well. For exmple, Butte City (formerly plain ol’ Butte) and Butte County.

G

There are NO FBI Offices in MT, so they may be talking about Butte, CA,which is handled by Sacramento FBI Office, here’s a list by the way:
http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field/jurisdictions

Dumb question:

Although it’s never safe to assume, the "widow" probably refers to Paul Stine’s wife (?) I’m assuming…….

If so, did she move to San Jose? Just trying to wrap my head around that FBI report.

-glurk

I was denied this I may try again.

"Butte tel" ?

Does that mean a call from Butte, Montana??? Butte is 37 miles from Deer Lodge.

Butte figures in some names in California as well. For exmple, Butte City (formerly plain ol’ Butte) and Butte County.

G

There are NO FBI Offices in MT, so they may be talking about Butte, CA,which is handled by Sacramento FBI Office, here’s a list by the way:
http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field/jurisdictions

No Morf thats current.

Until 1989, the FBI Montana Field Office was located in Butte, MT.

"In 1989, the FBI closed its field office in Butte, Montana and folded it into the Salt Lake City Division."

http://www.fbi.gov/saltlakecity/about-us/history-1

"In the early days of the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover, popular lore has it that agents who botched a job risked exile to the Bureau’s remote field office in Butte, Montana. The field office closed in 1989, but the FBI still sends plenty of agents to the Big Sky state. It’s not a punitive measure, but a concerted effort to tackle the same threats confronting the rest of the country."

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/au … ana_083011

It could mean something else, we don’t have all the information, but imo "Butte tel" most likely means a telephone call or telegram from the then existing Butte Montana Field Office. Which is very interesting given the Zodiac "Deer Lodge" comment and speculation Z may have had some ties or knowledge of that area. Butte, MT is just 37 miles from Deer Lodge, MT.

So it seems this letter mentioning San Jose, a widow, a cipher, and from "Zodiac", somehow first came to the attention of the Butte, Montana FBI office?

Aside from the possible Montana connection, the letter is interesting because the police seem to treat it as real and protected "the widow, there is a cipher involved, and part of it they say may be "Nov 28", which is the day Betsy Aardsma was killed.

Dumb question:

Although it’s never safe to assume, the "widow" probably refers to Paul Stine’s wife (?) I’m assuming…….

If so, did she move to San Jose? Just trying to wrap my head around that FBI report.

-glurk

I don’t know about Stine’s Widow, maybe Seagull,would know? I seem to recall that there was a timeline of some sort on her after stine died,I think Tahoe may know too.

I had a theory that the widow in the following case may have been the widow in question:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21
Following the lover’s lane murder of her Husband, she was getting heavy breather calls. I am pretty sure she lived in San Jose following his murder.AK said that the date of the lovers lane murder, fit somehow onto a pattern of dates

The 1620 in the cipher, maybe an address?
All of these in San Jose-
1620 Fallbrook Ave
1620 Campbell Ave
1620 E. Capital Expressway
1620 Mt. Oliveira Dr
1620 Sedona Terr
1620 Terilyn Ave

Morf that lovers lane murder fit into the number pattern associated with all the confirmed Z murders and several possibles – Lass, Hakari, Radetich, Bennallack. I don’t know that it means much but it is interesting.

Naturally Stine’s widow makes sense, I just don’t know if she ever moved to San Jose.

For those who can’t or don’t like to click through, here is most of my original Unazod post, so we are all on the same page:

Following another lead from Solar Pons, I ran across something else in the Zodiac FBI files.

Did Zodiac send the San Jose Police a letter on 11/21/69?

Apparently Zodiac or someone claiming to be him did.

It starts "There’s no doubt I will do my Thing!" and ends with a Zodiac symbol.

Zodiac mentioned San Jose ("S.J.") in the disputed 12/26/69 "This state is in trouble" letter.

The letter mentions a "widow" in San Jose.

Does someone know of a recent murder case in San Jose that left someone a widow? Or a prominent widow who lived in San Jose in 1969? The police were seemingly able to determine who it was, so perhaps it was a well known case or person.

Also, there was a short code on the letter.

Crypto unit refers to a "- + 6 2 + -". Says it might mean "1620" but that is not clear.

Any ideas on what " – + 6 2 + – " could mean?

Also, very interesting, there is a "November = 8", and some analysis (based in part on a "postmark"?) that the "=" could mean "2", thus creating "November 28".

On November 28, 1969, Betsy Aardsma was murdered in the Penn State library, an attack with many similarities to the Bates college library murder. Morf, myself and some others have investigated if the Aardsma murder could have been Zodiac.

If "Zodiac" on 11/21/69 was mentioning 11/28/69, the date of the Aardsma murder, I find that interesting.

It seems the SJPD knew right away who the "widow" was likely to be.

So I am thinking if a murder that left a woman a widow it must be fairly recent to 11/21/69 – within a few months, or at most a year or two?

Also thinking to be alert to any cases with numbers, addresses or dates having "62","26", "1620" or "11/8" or "11/28".

Of course two girls were brutally killed in San Jose in August 1969, though a man eventually confessed to that crime.

And Rand found this – a girl killed in a suburb of San Jose around 10/20/69.

http://diva.sfsu.edu/bundles/190094

So far no luck on finding a man killed in San Jose or a well known widow there.

Anyone have any thoughts on what " – + 6 2 + -" or "November = 8" or "November 28" could mean?

One interesting thing about this letter is that it was treated as REAL.

Unlike every other letter I see in the file, they do NOT even ask for a handwriting exam on it.

And they put the mentioned "widow" under 24 hour police protection!

Was this letter sent in with something not mentioned, a bit of bloody shirt, or did it say something in the text that only Zodiac would know?

Or was a hoaxer able to dupe police? If so, how and why?

The surrounding circumstances lend at least some support to the fact that police thought this was a real Zodiac letter.

The second time they say the widow’s name, it is much shorter, as I think they do not repeat the address, and it looks IMO like 5 to 8 letters are redacted.

Meaning perhaps her last name is 5 to 8 letters long?

I even thought of Mrs. Stine but to my knowledge she was living in SF, not SJ.

Dumb question:

Although it’s never safe to assume, the "widow" probably refers to Paul Stine’s wife (?) I’m assuming…….

If so, did she move to San Jose? Just trying to wrap my head around that FBI report.

-glurk

I don’t know about Stine’s Widow, maybe Seagull,would know? I seem to recall that there was a timeline of some sort on her after stine died,I think Tahoe may know too.

I had a theory that the widow in the following case may have been the widow in question:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21
Following the lover’s lane murder of her Husband, she was getting heavy breather calls. I am pretty sure she lived in San Jose following his murder.AK said that the date of the lovers lane murder, fit somehow onto a pattern of dates

The 1620 in the cipher, maybe an address?
All of these in San Jose-
1620 Fallbrook Ave
1620 Campbell Ave
1620 E. Capital Expressway
1620 Mt. Oliveira Dr
1620 Sedona Terr
1620 Terilyn Ave

Lydia P. Rodriguez, who I believe was the Widow of the man killed in 1967 in the link above, lived at 1666 Scotty,San Jose in 1972.

But "Rodriguez" would not fit the last redacted part of the FBI report. Only a short name would fit.

-glurk

Based on a very careful re-typing, in a mono-spaced font just like a typewriter, as exactly as I could match the original, I came up with this:

I believe the spacing and layout is the exact same as the original. I checked it over twice.

-glurk

Gotta give the nod to AK here re: the RE: I’m sure there are plenty of towns with the name "Butte" in it but if Butte, MT had an FBI office back then, that’s probably referring to a telegram from Butte, MT and of course that would be interesting for Ted proponents. I’m always skeptical about these unconfirmed letters but I think we would need to see it to make an informed assessments. I will say that just because it’s in the FBI files or the FBI seemed to take it seriously doesn’t make me any more likely to accept it as legitimate. Any letter at that time mailed with a cipher and cross-circle symbol would be included in the FBI files. The recipient would obviously be important to consider. I’ll save any questions about Ted’s motivations or itinerary.