What I have a lot of trouble with is Cheri Jo Bates and why LE are saying that it was not the work of Z. I’ve brought this up quite a bit now, but does anyone have any knowledge or good educated guesses as to why that is? I have confidence in the DNA they have on her killer, and the fact that it remains a stone cold case, along with all the obvious connections, leads me to think it was a Z killing.

There is speculation, but we don’t know for sure, that the Bates case evidence(prints or DNA) has been tested against the Zodiac evidence(prints or DNA), and does not match, and therefore, the killer of Bates is not Zodiac. In the end, they may be correct, but that does not mean Z was not the writer in the Bates case. Riverside has refused to rule out their favorite Suspect of 40+ years, DESPITE DNA evidence excluding their Suepect

Thanks Morf. So even after DNA exonerated Barnett, they still perused him?

I’ve always been on the fence about Z being responsible for Bates; it seems more passionate and personal. But with the way Z’s MO changes, I could still still him doing it. I am almost sure the person who penned Z’s letters is also responsible for the Bates’ letters.

IMO, the DNA/Fingerprint evidence may be sufficient to rule out a suspect, but not enough to implicate one. Otherwise, we would have heard of it by now. As far as RPD goes, they’re committed to "Bob Barnett", and refuse to entertain any connection to Z.

There’s a three year time difference between the full fledged "Zodiac Killer" emerging and CJB’s murder in 1966; perhaps in those intervening years the Riverside police had already developed enough in the way of evidence elsewhere. That’s the rosiest view.
There’s also the implication (since we don’t hear about them making the letters they received public in 1966 or asking for more interaction with their writer) that when those letters arrived – six months after the start of the investigation and right after a splendindly detailed newspaper article on the subject – that they actually didn’t give them that much credence. Or perhaps that’s just my tiny bit of bias showing.
Last – as has been suggested many times before – the Riverside police have a subject they believe in so strongly that they’re blind to any other possibilities, even in the face of definitive DNA evidence to the contrary, and were, right from the start.
Personally, I don’t believe that last one. Not for a second.
I’m disappointed that the Riverside force haven’t acknowledged that the letters they received come from the same source as the later "Zodiac" ones, mind you. Perhaps there’s some other reason for that? Perhaps to do so might mean….?

Thanks for your input, Smithy. By now, I’m afraid most of us are convinced RPD has deliberately blinded itself to any possibility that someone other than "Bob Barnett" murdered Cheri Bates. For fear of appearing incompetent they are, in truth, being incompetent.
Everyone makes mistakes, even cops. Should RPD overhaul its Bates investigation and start afresh, no one would fault them. In fact, they’d be praised for being open-minded, and preferring justice to maintaining their public image.
Completely off the subject: I suspect your real, no kidding name is Smith. (Brilliant deduction, eh?) If that be the case, are you aware of why there are so many Smiths? (And I don’t mean the obvious reason).
Way back when, the smith was the most important man in any village. He was, actually, a one man factory, and everyone depended on his products. This being the case, he could–and did–demand top wages. And, because of the strenuous nature of his work, he was of necessity physically strong. He was financially able to marry the most desirable woman in the village, and produce many healthy offspring who matured in an upscale cottage stocked with groceries. In turn, THESE offspring… .
Dag

Dag – my real name’s Wáng. Don’t tell!

Since the Riverside police of modern times aren’t likely to have even one officer left over from ’66, and since it’s STILL a big case, and since there are now lots of other "DNA solves murder…" stories popping up all over, we must not be cynical! I strongly suspect (I’ve been wrong before!) that they would absolutely LOVE to be able to finally close that case, whatever the result, whoever the perpetrator(s) finally turn out to be. No departmental embarrassment or perceived public turn-around would get in the way I’d bet – not a chance.
After all, law enforcement officers love to enforce the law – and new bright-eyed and hungry ones join that department ever year or two.
Closing that one wouldn’t just be fabulous PR – as well as resolute Justice pleasing the community – it’d be damn good for your career.
Just my 2 cents!

Smithy, you make some excellent points.

If I were a young detective or other LE officer who would be assigned to this and other cold cases, the very first thing I’d do is get out the file and go over each and every piece of paper and document in it, examining every note, doodle and other thing that might appear irrelevant.

It is surprising what fresh eyes can bring to situations like this. In view of the many advances in technology since Cheri Jo Bates was murdered, imo a young detective who has the interest and has the training in modern forensics might be what it takes to solve this case. A younger person would probably not have any of the "politics" to deal with here either, since as you point out, the original investigators are probably long gone.

Smithy, you make some excellent points.

If I were a young detective or other LE officer who would be assigned to this and other cold cases, the very first thing I’d do is get out the file and go over each and every piece of paper and document in it, examining every note, doodle and other thing that might appear irrelevant.

It is surprising what fresh eyes can bring to situations like this. In view of the many advances in technology since Cheri Jo Bates was murdered, imo a young detective who has the interest and has the training in modern forensics might be what it takes to solve this case. A younger person would probably not have any of the "politics" to deal with here either, since as you point out, the original investigators are probably long gone.

Well the facts show that California has an unsolved murder rate of 40+%. That’s a lot of cases piling up each year. I [regretfully] doubt that anyone in LE is looking into a 45~ year old murder cases.

part of the problem with cases of that era is that forensic science was still in its (comparative) infancy. the care taken with evidence varies greatly so we’re left assuming (based on what we know) that any evidence is in a state where it could at this point prove useful.

an example would be the hair fiber – we’ve been informed a hair fiber was found clutched in bates’ hand, the assumption being that it was the perp’s hair. we don’t know how it was stored, how it’s been compared, how it was analyzed, and frankly we don’t know much more than that – many many times in cases like this i’ve seen something assumed to be a known fact that turned out to be much more specious. for those of you who follow the "grateful doe" case, for eighteen years it was a fact that a note was found in the uid’s pocket, but in the past six months we’ve found out that the note was found near the car wreck and might not have anything to do with the case.

the short version of my point is that we don’t always know everything, and sometimes we don’t even know what we know, you know?

Dag – my real name’s Wáng. Don’t tell!

Since the Riverside police of modern times aren’t likely to have even one officer left over from ’66, and since it’s STILL a big case, and since there are now lots of other "DNA solves murder…" stories popping up all over, we must not be cynical! I strongly suspect (I’ve been wrong before!) that they would absolutely LOVE to be able to finally close that case, whatever the result, whoever the perpetrator(s) finally turn out to be. No departmental embarrassment or perceived public turn-around would get in the way I’d bet – not a chance.
After all, law enforcement officers love to enforce the law – and new bright-eyed and hungry ones join that department ever year or two.
Closing that one wouldn’t just be fabulous PR – as well as resolute Justice pleasing the community – it’d be damn good for your career.
Just my 2 cents!

100% agree.

I agree it seems logical that a bright young detective would want to solve this famous cold case. And we see cold cases solved by DNA quite a lot. What we probably do not factor in, however, are the political realities in that department. RPD has taken a very strong stand that Bates was NOT a Z victim. So far that appears to be the dominant factor. I can state that in 2009 Detective Steve Shumway refused to even look at my evidence. There are also realities of budgets for cold cases and the ongoing new cases taking priority. I also think they wish to avoid the circus atmosphere around the Z case by denying it was Z. By denying it is even possible it could be Z.

Here is the topic link about the FBI DNA reports that Morf got, and one old comment from me.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=92

AK Wilks:

I have heard some argue this, and it must also be the position of Riverside PD, that the hairs may not be from the killer. Perhaps they came from a police officer or evidence tech, or perhaps were already on the ground. But this FBI report states that the hairs were on a blood clot in her hand. That IMO makes it more likely they were indeed from the killer and came off in the struggle.

Also the report indicates FOUR hairs found on the blod clot in Cheri’s hand. IMO there could be a very small chance that it is possible ONE hair came from a police officer, lab tech, reporter or was present on the ground prior to the crime. But not FOUR hairs on a BLOOD CLOT. IMO these hairs are from the killer, and the killer was almost certainly Zodiac.

I see that a person claiming the whole Zodiac case is a hoax says the mtDNA used to compare to local suspect ‘Barnett’ was aged and faulty. These reports show that is false as they show a good sample was obtained and Barnett was conclusively cleared as a non-match. Also for those who say the hair in Cheri’s hand could have come from a cop that seems highly unlikely as these reports show it was actually FOUR hairs in a blood clot.

Given that hair color changes over time, and with exposure to sun light, and given the problems of subjective perceptions of color and word meanings, I can give a little slack to RPD for saying the hair was "sandy blonde", which happens to match local suspect "Barnett", while the FBI report says it is "brown." It is still wrong, but giving them the benefit of the doubt perhaps it was just a mistake.

Far more troubling is that even after the DNA comparison which excludes Barnett, the RPD still kept the focus on him as a suspect, and refused to pursue the possible Zodiac connection to the case. I can personally state that in 2009 and 2010 Detective Steve Shumway of the RPD refused to look at or consider evidence pointing to the Zodiac as the killer of Cheri. They are relying on a jailhouse informant and disregarding the DNA evidence, plus all the handwriting, word usage, MO and other evidence pointing to Zodiac.