"Pelissetti seems to have been hung up on the assumption that the killer would have been visibly blood stained."

That’s right Norse, and there is absolutely no reason for Zodiac to have virtually any blood on him, other than a little back spatter on his right hand. That is unless you really believe that Zodiac after shooting a man in the head, which is profusely bleeding, he would then rest the victims head in his lap, to subsequently get smothered in blood, knowing he has to exit the scene on foot.

Precisely – it makes no sense.

For my money the teens were mistaken about the exact nature of what Z was doing inside the cab. It appeared to them as though Stine’s head was resting in his lap – but that isn’t what actually happened. Z wouldn’t have done that – and even if he did something close to that, he wouldn’t have done so if it meant getting blood all over him: So, he didn’t. He had some measure of control as to where the blood would spill (to put it brutally).

There’s no reason to think that he was necessarily visibly blood stained (as Pelissetti clearly seems to have assumed – both that night and later on).

Fouke should have stopped the guy and talked to him at least, even if he thought he was hunting for a black male, which is also in dispute. It’s possible the guy was a friend of Fouke’s. Maybe even a cop or ex-cop. Or a cop wannabe, who hung around cop bars (which is a common characteristic of serial killers). Fouke at this time had no idea he was looking for a serial killer. Indeed, even if he was interested in the Zodiac case, the Stine murder didn’t fit the Zodiac’s normal SOP up to that time, which was lovers lane couples. It looked to him like a common taxi driver robbery. He knew his acquaintance walking along was not a petty thief, but he did talk to him briefly, then let him go. Only later did he realize his acquaintance was the murderer. He changed his story to cover his own ass as well as to protect his friend. Then Zelms was murdered shortly afterwards. Yes I saw the newspaper article which says it was strictly in the line of duty, but newspaper articles are sometimes incorrect. Maybe the Z was Fouke’s partner, who didn’t make it to work that night. In which case he had another reason to protect him, since the guy had called in sick yet here he was walking around.

Question is, why has the official Zodiac sketch been the one shown here with two different faces, and hairlines & an age description of 25-45? I think this is due to multiple witnesses of Zodiac that night. Also, we know about the Kids in the window seeing Z, and Fouke, but what about other witnesses we don’t know about? Remember that one witness that was a kid who welsh chappie had found in a report? Didn’t we determine this was not one of the kids in the window?

Whats the need for two different drafts of the same face? Near as i can tell its the eyes.

Soze

Question is, why has the official Zodiac sketch been the one shown here with two different faces, and hairlines & an age description of 25-45? I think this is due to multiple witnesses of Zodiac that night. Also, we know about the Kids in the window seeing Z, and Fouke, but what about other witnesses we don’t know about? Remember that one witness that was a kid who welsh chappie had found in a report? Didn’t we determine this was not one of the kids in the window?

Whats the need for two different drafts of the same face? Near as i can tell its the eyes.

Soze

And the hairline. I wonder if the kids could not see the hairline well,and the widow’s peak hairline was part of the updated sketch-Fouke was very specific about Z having a widow’s peak hairline

Question is, why has the official Zodiac sketch been the one shown here with two different faces, and hairlines & an age description of 25-45? I think this is due to multiple witnesses of Zodiac that night. Also, we know about the Kids in the window seeing Z, and Fouke, but what about other witnesses we don’t know about? Remember that one witness that was a kid who welsh chappie had found in a report? Didn’t we determine this was not one of the kids in the window?

Whats the need for two different drafts of the same face? Near as i can tell its the eyes.

Soze

And the hairline. I wonder if the kids could not see the hairline well,and the widow’s peak hairline was part of the updated sketch-Fouke was very specific about Z having a widow’s peak hairline

It’s been said a lot it was the kids who wanted it revised and Fouke had nothing to do with it. I certainly don’t see how anyone could give details about squinty eyes or lines in the face, etc.

The teenagers gave a description of 25-30 years. If Donald Fouke had not influenced Pelissetti’s police report the next morning, how come on the second page it describes a suspect in his early forties. This could not have come from the teenagers, unless they dramatically changed the age estimation overnight. And if the police report indicated a Donald Fouke influence, as the description appears a mesh of the teenagers and Donald Fouke, it sounds logical that Donald Fouke’s description had borne itself out in the revised composite sketch.

Hm. Could Fouke possibly have know–perhaps even been a friend of–Zodiac? Anything in Fouke’s background to indicate this might be possible? Or perhaps that he might have been a bit bent, himself?

Yes, Dag, I myself brought up that possibility a few posts back. For some reason the officers on the case (Fouke and Armand) were less than honest and straightforward. And then you have the rookie cop getting murdered a few months later.

why isn’t the simplest answer that fouke saw/talked to someone (thinking he was looking for a black male who shot a cab driver) and only later, realizing they were actually looking for the zodiac, revealed it to his superiors who told him to keep it quiet but to aide in the creation of a composite? he only writes up his report (nov 12) a few days after zodiac’s bus bomb letter mentions the encounter (nov 9). zodiac wrote an oct 13 letter and nov 8 dripping pen card without mentioning the interaction.

this seems simple and likely given what we know. no conspiracy, no wonky theories, just simply he saw or spoke to someone and upon realizing its significance was told to keep it internal to le until zodiac mentions it, at which point he officially writes up a report.

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=402

"Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and believing the suspect to be armed with only a knife) ran out his door to see where Zodiac was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Zodiac continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.
At this exact point, the first SFPD car arrives with two officers. One, Pelissetti, approached Lindsey and tried to extract what was happening. The other officer went to the cab and found the bloody victim. While Pelissetti asking questions, Lindsey was trying to explain that the suspect was in sight on Cherry St. By the time Pelissetti got the point, they both looked and the Zodiac was gone."

If this interview with the Robbins kids is a solid recollection, it is clear Zodiac had just rounded the corner of Jackson/Cherry by the time Pelissetti looked. Zodiac was last spotted on the east side of Cherry, therefore it is highly likely that with such a short time frame from Lindsey notifying Pelissetti he could see Zodiac, to Zodiac disappearing, it’s logical he turned into Jackson. It takes 2 minutes to traverse the length of Jackson on foot to the next intersection. Had Pelissetti hopped into his police car and traveled east on Washington and north on Maple he could have easily cut off Zodiac and lay in wait to ambush him. But strangely Pelissetti proceeds cautiously up Cherry "using all of his police procedures so he didn’t get his head blown off." So rather than use common sense to create the ambush, he became worried of the ambush, despite being already told by Lindsey that Zodiac was nearing the top of Cherry, in the above linked interview. Like I said, that section of Jackson Street takes 2 minutes to walk, Pelissetti could reach the intersection of Jackson and Maple, via Washington in 30-40 seconds, radioing for the west side of Jackson Street to be sealed. Zodiac would then have been trapped. If the account above is correct, it is yet another example of police ineptitude.

There’s really no proof the dispatcher said to look for a black male. That could have been made up after the fact as an excuse.

There’s really no proof the dispatcher said to look for a black male. That could have been made up after the fact as an excuse.

sure, i guess. it just seems like the more likely scenario is the one that follows from what we’ve been told than a conspiracy theory about covering up a crime, etc etc. to each their own, but from my vantage point it’s already hard enough to make heads or tails out of the "evidence" we have which is often pretty unreliable without adding another layer of conjecture. you’re right that there isn’t much proof about what the dispatcher said but there’s not any proof that someone is lying about what the dispatcher said either.

Just looking at the overall picture of the statements made by Armand and Fouke it doesn’t add up. You have to admit that. Did Fouke talk to the guy or not? If not, why not? If he saw him go toward a certain house, why was that house not checked? Or was it? And what about "the man with the dog?" When you say "there’s not any proof that somebody’s lying about the dispatcher saying black male", well, I would submit to you that there is proof that either Fouke or Armand or both were lying about other stuff, such as whether Fouke told Armand he talked to the guy. Or if it wasn’t lying it was bad hearing or bad memory. So the same could apply to the dispatcher’s dispatch. The cops on this scene show every sign of frantically trying to cover their asses. It’s not unusual. And yes, the rookie cop who could have shed some light on the situation did die of gunshot wounds a few months later, which I consider a little bit suspicious, despite the newspaper article saying he was killed by a petty thief. What would you expect—a newspaper article saying he was killed by a cop in a coverup of the Zodiac Killer investigation? Not likely.

BTW, Armand also had a partner that night, whose death also preceded Armand’s and Fouke’s. Did he ever say anything about what happened that night? How and when did he die?