Was thinking recently about the comment Bryan made in his first statement to police, a comment that I think has been rather overlooked.
Bryan stated that Zodiac demanded Cecelia tie him up with binds brought to the scene by Zodiac. She complied with Z’s demands and tied Bryans hands behind his back. As Bryan later states, she tied him rather loosely. Zodiac then tied Cecelia’s hands and feet before moving on to Bryan to tighten his binds. It was at this point that Bryan makes what seems a rather curious observation, one that seems very much at odds with how we know Zodiac acted in Pacific Heights. He stated that as Zodiac started to retie/strengthen Bryans restraints, he noticed that Zodiac’s hands were shaking and trembling sufficiently enough for him to notice and enquire of the hooded man "Are you nervous?". Equally odd, is what Bryan says Zodiac said in response. Bryan says Zodiac replied by Laughing and saying ‘Yeah’, followed by him making what Bryan described as a ‘Swooooosh’ sound.
Zodiac being a quivering, nervous wreck is completely at odds with how he was described by witnesses in Pacific Heights. On the contrary, they tell of a man who appears to be the picture of calmness, calmly wiping down the interior of the cab, exiting, wiping down one side of the exterior, then walking around to the drivers side to do the same, before casually walking off down Cherry st in the direction of Jackson as if he’s off or an evening stroll in Julius Kahn park. Can this be the same guy who just two weeks previously seems to be trembling and shaking like the proverbial leaf? Or, could his trembling hands have an explanation that has nothing to do with fear of the situation?
Don Fouke said the man he saw was ‘Stumbling along, kinda lumbering down the sidewalk with a semi-limp sort of walking motion. This suggests that Zodiac could have had some sort of disorder that effected his ability to walk (I realise there are many other causes or reason he may have walked in sch a manner also). Is there a medical problem that cases gait problems, shaking and trembling hands, and even speech problems? Turns out, yes there is.
FXTAS Syndrome & Symptoms. (Fragile X-associated tremor/ataxia syndrome)
The physical symptoms of FXTAS include an intention tremor, ataxia, and parkinsonism (this includes small, shuffling steps, muscle rigidity and slowed speech), as well as neuropathic symptoms.
Gait/posture abnormalities – Difficulty maintaining normal upright posture (Fouke states the suspect looked down, as if bent over slightly), balance, coordinated walking, and running. Unsteady gait, staggering, tripping, falling (Again, Fouke states he shuffled and stumbled along the sidewalk). Unsteadiness on stairs or maintaining balance on moving platforms, such as escalators or boats. These difficulties are often due to cerebellar dysfunction.
Speech difficulties: Slurred, slow, indistinct, abnormal in rhythm. (Slover: He (Zodiac) spoke in a monotone. Hartnell: Precise cadence (A balanced or rhythmic flow, such as a musical beat or tempo. Inflection of the voice) to his voice. He speech was very slow and measured.)
Intention Tremor: Involuntary limb movement and shaking while carrying out a task. Tremors appear only in certain situations, such as in pressure situations, and are not present when patient is calm and relaxed. (Hartnell: described Zodiac’s hands as trembling quite violently)
And you know the other symptom associated with Ataxia just happens to be? Barrel Chest!
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Did Zodiac react by Laughing to Bryans question as if to dismiss the idea of him shaking due to nervousness, a kind of "Don’t be ridiculous" kind of dismissal? Did he laugh at the irony of the situation and him shaking as if to say "Do you really think that I’d be out here, in a black hood, doing this if I was a nervous wreck and scared to death I would be captured? That’s kind of funny."
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
I think he was excitedly nervous, and the shaking could have been because he was excited about what he was about to do. I think Z may very well have been a timid person in every day life, so even though he was in power at Berryessa, he still felt that timid feeling
There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer
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I think he was excitedly nervous, and the shaking could have been because he was excited about what he was about to do. I think Z may very well have been a timid person in every day life, so even know he was in power at Berryessa, he still felt that timid feeling
I agree with you on the point of Zodiac the man being reserved and timid and have often said that. I think the persona he created that appears on paper he created to be everything he wished he was, but never could be, in his real everyday life. If he really were the braggart who loved nothing more than provoking police, bragging about what he had done and when, loved announcing at the opening of each letter that This is the Zodiac Speaking as if that should mean something and be of importance to people so they all take notice, would this type of man really be able to remain in the shadows for almost half a Century? I would say it is unlikely.
But the above is just a suggestion to consider. I don’t know if I agree with Berryessa Zodiac being like a kid in a sweet shop and overly excited because there was no sign or evidence of something similar two weeks later in Pacific Heights. He was the exact opposite of excited if anything and was his lack of any kind of emotion or reaction that stands out as unusual considering what he had just done. He seemed almost too calm and too unconcerned in his lack of reaction if anything. Captain Martin Lee commented "In his violent movement, or the violent period that he’s been in, He’s an absolutely ruthless, completely merciless killer. He calmy goes about his business in one case telephoning police, in another tearing a piece of the recently killed victims shirt… He doesn’t get excitement over it, he thinks killing is just killing so somebody like that is going to be a very serious problem."
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Also, LB was so different than the other attacks. He spent a lot of time with the people. It was daylight and he was in an open area public park. Anyone could’ve walked upon them or even driven up in a boat on the lake at any second. It probably felt more intense and personal to Z due to his use of a knife rather than a gun, too. Could’ve been a medical condition that made him tremble but I wouldn’t rule out him actually being nervous/shaking in this particular situation.
Also, LB was so different than the other attacks. He spent a lot of time with the people. It was daylight and he was in an open area public park. Anyone could’ve walked upon them or even driven up in a boat on the lake at any second. It probably felt more intense and personal to Z due to his use of a knife rather than a gun, too. Could’ve been a medical condition that made him tremble but I wouldn’t rule out him actually being nervous/shaking in this particular situation.
It’s also unique in that Zodiac made it possible for the targeted victims to know exactly who it was standing in front of them before he ever spoke one word of the ‘I am an escapee and just need your car’ ruse, used so he could justify the need to bind & incapacitate them. That story worked because as Brayn said, he let his feelings be known to The Z because as he says "I kinda fussed with him about it (being tied up) because it’s cold in the evenings, it wasn’t so much the cold, it was the inconvenience of being stuck out there all night." Bryan believed the hooded man’s story because he did not recognise the 4 inch squared symbol he was sporting on his chest! In this attack he wore the costume which had clearly sewn into the front and centre of it a 4 to 5 inch diameter cross hairs, the symbol that he had by then sent in a letter to the Chronicle to identify himself as Zodiac. So, had the two people he picked as victims taken in interest in the recent killings and letters, one or both of them could have instantly recognised that symbol on the front as the symbol used by the Zodiac Killer responsible for the recent teen slayings. If they had, they’d surely have reacted differently knowing that the man in front of them had already shot two couples killing three of the victims. It’s almost like his ego wanted to see if they would recognise him from the symbol. Maybe that’s what he’d hoped would happen so he could satisfy his ego that yes, I am getting recognition from the masses!
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
He probably was surprised that they didn’t seem to recognize who he was/the symbol. Also, may have been surprised that they didn’t seem to fear him so much (if things went like BH has stated, he didn’t seem to be so fearful considering the situation).
He probably was surprised that they didn’t seem to recognize who he was/the symbol. Also, may have been surprised that they didn’t seem to fear him so much (if things went like BH has stated, he didn’t seem to be so fearful considering the situation).
I know, Bryan seemd somewhat naïve. I mean so oblivious was he to the imminent danger he & Cecelia were in that he says he was thinking during the incident how he could use this experience to write a paper for his sociology class! Bryan hinted he was naïve back then in the rare documentary interview he gave in 07 saying "I turn around and i’m faced with this man not running, but walking briskly toward me and as I go to get up he says ‘It’s ok, everybody stay clam, all I want is your car. If everybody stays cool nobody will get hurt.‘ And I believed him."
In all fairness to Bryan, he came from a good background where in everyday life the people around him were as good as their word and he’d have no reason to question them. I suppose in our day and age we’d say he wasn’t street wise.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
To be honest, I’m not necessarily surprised that Bryan and Cecelia didn’t recognise Zodiac for who he was. At that point in time, he was still pretty much a Vallejo-Benecia area bogeyman.
To be honest, I’m not necessarily surprised that Bryan and Cecelia didn’t recognise Zodiac for who he was. At that point in time, he was still pretty much a Vallejo-Benecia area bogeyman.
Also, Cecelia was up for the weekend from southern California and Bryan had come down from Oregon. It was just the beginning of the semester and neither were around for the July 4th attack and the letters that came right afterwards. There was only one August letter and that was in the first week, there were no September letters. It is not surprising to me at all that Cecelia and Bryan didn’t have a clue about Zodiac and I bet it was very disappointing to Zodiac.
To be honest, I’m not necessarily surprised that Bryan and Cecelia didn’t recognise Zodiac for who he was. At that point in time, he was still pretty much a Vallejo-Benecia area bogeyman.
Also, Cecelia was up for the weekend from southern California and Bryan had come down from Oregon. It was just the beginning of the semester and neither were around for the July 4th attack and the letters that came right afterwards. There was only one August letter and that was in the first week, there were no September letters. It is not surprising to me at all that Cecelia and Bryan didn’t have a clue about Zodiac and I bet it was very disappointing to Zodiac.
Good points both of you.
Which brings me to the point of wondering why he didn’t come right out and say he was Zodiac…to them, LE on the phone or write it on Bryan’s car door. He had used Zodiac in the August letter so he had taken on that persona.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Well Nach said ‘i’m not surprised they didn’t recognise Zodiac…’ to which you replied by elaborating further that ‘Also, Cecelia was up for the weekend and Bryan was had come down from Oregon’ as to offer further reasoning why Zodiac wouldn’t have likely been recognised. As I’ve said many times over, I’m fine with people disagreeing with me, and I fully expect them to because this is a discussion forum relating to an unsolved case and because the offender(s) are still unknown, along with his/their motive, much of what will be posted is likely to be speculation and theory. There is no need to get defensive Seagull, I wasn’t being offensive. All I was doing was pointing out that I never mentioned what likelihood there was him being recognised, nor questioned why he wasn’t because that was never the point.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
My thought on the topic is that it seems to be a rare glimpse of Zodiac as human being rather than super-villain. He may have appeared calm wiping down Stine’s cab or walking away from the scene but he could also easily have been on the verge of peeing his pants… or under the influence of something. At Lake Berryessa, he knew he was going to have to have much closer interaction with his victims and control them rather than just shoot people and walk or drive away. A lot could go wrong. I think he was probably just flat out nervous about what he planned to do out in open space, the possibility of something going wrong and the fear of getting caught.
