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Bates Case FBI Files Specific to DNA

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morf13
(@morf13)
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Bates Case FBI Files Specific to DNA. This DNA is believed to be from Cheri’s attacker. It does NOT match the suspect that Riverside PD has believed for years attacked Cheri.











There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : March 30, 2013 6:13 am
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
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Great job Morf on getting these documents. With Morf”s blessing I made these available to all the major Zodiac sites.

Not blaming this site at all, because I am sure they were relying on information from the Riverside PD, which we now know was FALSE.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/BatesDNA.html

But apparently Riverside PD passed along info that the hair found in Cheri’s hand was "sandy BLONDE", which was the hair color of the "local suspect" RPD favored. Thanks to Morf we now know the hairs were described by the FBI as "BROWN."

I have heard some argue this, and it must also be the position of Riverside PD, that the hairs may not be from the killer. Perhaps they came from a police officer or evidence tech, or perhaps were already on the ground. But this FBI report states that the hairs were on a blood clot in her hand. That IMO makes it more likely they were indeed from the killer and came off in the struggle.

Also the report indicates FOUR hairs found on the blod clot in Cheri’s hand. IMO there could be a very small chance that it is possible ONE hair came from a police officer, lab tech, reporter or was present on the ground prior to the crime. But not FOUR hairs on a BLOOD CLOT. IMO these hairs are from the killer, and the killer was almost certainly Zodiac.

I see that a person claiming the whole Zodiac case is a hoax says the mtDNA used to compare to local suspect ‘Barnett’ was aged and faulty. These reports show that is false as they show a good sample was obtained and Barnett was conclusively cleared as a non-match. Also for those who say the hair in Cheri’s hand could have come from a cop that seems highly unlikely as these reports show it was actually FOUR hairs in a blood clot.

Given that hair color changes over time, and with exposure to sun light, and given the problems of subjective perceptions of color and word meanings, I can give a little slack to RPD for saying the hair was "sandy blonde", which happens to match local suspect "Barnett", while the FBI report says it is "brown." It is still wrong, but giving them the benefit of the doubt perhaps it was just a mistake.

Far more troubling is that even after the DNA comparison which excludes Barnett, the RPD still kept the focus on him as a suspect, and refused to pursue the possible Zodiac connection to the case. I can personally state that in 2009 and 2010 Detective Steve Shumway of the RPD refused to look at or consider evidence pointing to the Zodiac as the killer of Cheri. They are relying on a jailhouse informant and disregarding the DNA evidence, plus all the handwriting, word usage, MO and other evidence pointing to Zodiac.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : April 9, 2013 7:48 am
morf13
(@morf13)
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My gut feeling is that their DNA & print evidence does not fit the Zodiac DNA & print evidence,and that is why they say Zodiac didn’t kill Cheri. That would mean that someplace along the way, a comparison was done. Originally, RPD stated that whomever sent the ‘confession letter’ had to be the responsible. But I think we have proven that there were indeed news articles out there that might have contained enough info for the confession author to have gone on. In my mind,I have very little doubt that Zodiac, whomever he was wrote all of the Bates letters. Whether he killed Cheri or not,hard to say,but the use of the knife at Berryessa could certainly have been Zodiac relving his Bates attack if he killed her.

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 9, 2013 2:31 pm
(@sandy-betts)
Posts: 1375
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Great information Morf, thank you !
It has been known for a long time now, that Barnett ( Not his real name ) was excluded and that it didn’t seem to matter to RPD, also that there was a hair and some skin found in her hand. I thought it was found under her finger nails and that they thought it was from a mustache or beard ? I am very glad to hear that the suspects hair was indeed brown instead of blond ,which now matches Hartnell’s description and the man that I got away from in Vallejo 1968.

While I was in Riverside , I phoned RPD leaving a message on their recorder, asking them if Cheri Jo was missing her watch ? I asked because of the girls watch that was left with the costume in my car Sept 69.
They don’t seem to care about the case, they never did get back to me. That girls watch I feel, could have belonged to a possible victim, which had to be before Sept 28th 29th 1969 and it could still have some DNA on it, belonging to the killer and the victim ? It is disturbing to me that this watch could be a huge break in the case, yet it is ignored by RPD and Napa.
Did these Riverside prints get entered into a data base ? If those prints were from the left hand and Napa’s were from the right ( For instance )then of course they couldn’t match.
More than likely the two men with flash lights near Cheri Jo’s body were not Barnett and a friend, so who were they then ? Perhaps Zodiac and the person who left his greasy prints on Cheri Jo’s car? If so, then that would explain why those prints didn’t match any of the known Z prints ?

 
Posted : April 9, 2013 9:33 pm
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
Noble Member
 

There is no Zodiac DNA to compare to. I am trying to get comparisons done with the mtDNA found in the hairs in Cheri’s hand and other mtDNA from other unsolved cases which have some MO or other possible similarities to Zodiac.

As for fingerprints from Bates case not matching Zodiac case prints, we have unknown prints on Bates car, some or none of which may be from her killer, and unknown prints on Stine’s cab and a Napa payphone, some or none of which may be from Zodiac. A non-match on these prints is not definitive.

In the police recreation at the library the only person missing was a bearded young man and as he was apparently not known or recognized by anyone that night. This prime suspect in Cheri’s murder was apparently NOT a student or local person and was very likely a stranger to the campus and maybe even the town.

Often times when a woman is killed, friends and family say she would not have gone off with a stranger, but the sad fact is it happens time and time again. If the killer is clean cut, dressed well, speaks well and friendly, many woman will trust him, especially if they are stranded and he offers to help them with their car. My suit and tie wearing POI approached a student who was a complete stranger at an Idaho campus, and I think because he looked so clean cut and normal, she trusted him and walked away with him and they talked for an hour!

And there are many, many documented cases of serial killers approaching woman who are strangers and getting them in their cars. Remember this is 1966 and I think people were a little more trusting and even naïve back then.

This woman got in the car of the man who IMO may well have been the Bates killer/Zodiac, and this was just after Bates had been killed. Yet she got in the car of a stranger.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : April 10, 2013 7:06 am
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
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What about the cigarette butt? Wouldn’ that have DNA on it? Does anyone know what brand of cigarette this was? Good Job.

 
Posted : April 10, 2013 7:40 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

It is so unbecoming a police department to take such a partisan position that "their suspect" killed Bates. RPD has acted like an amateur investigator, not a police department. And the sad part is that they did this even though they have access to all the evidence, including the color of the hair found in Cheri Jo’s hand. Their behavior has been disgraceful and childish, IMO.

I’d love to see a reporter with a set of cojones in Riverside (is there one?) tackle this mess and expose RPD for what it is. Their guy isn’t the Bates killer, so they took their ball and went home and are now pouting. It’s outrageous that they put out disinformation about the color of the hair to make their guy sound like a more likely suspect.

I was told about the NYT article that mentioned the distributor a long time ago and used to be of the opinion that the info for the Confession letter was out in the public domain. But that NYT article was pretty obscure and that nagging detail in the Confession about the phone call has yet to be elucidated. Maybe the same reporter who tackles this story can also try to find out if a phone call was made to the police or press shortly after the Bates murder. If so, I believe that it is more likely that her killer, be he Z or not, wrote the Confession.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 5:07 am
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

Hi-

It is so unbecoming a police department to take such a partisan position that "their suspect" killed Bates. RPD has acted like an amateur investigator, not a police department. And the sad part is that they did this even though they have access to all the evidence, including the color of the hair found in Cheri Jo’s hand. Their behavior has been disgraceful and childish, IMO.

I’d love to see a reporter with a set of cojones in Riverside (is there one?) tackle this mess and expose RPD for what it is. Their guy isn’t the Bates killer, so they took their ball and went home and are now pouting. It’s outrageous that they put out disinformation about the color of the hair to make their guy sound like a more likely suspect.

I was told about the NYT article that mentioned the distributor a long time ago and used to be of the opinion that the info for the Confession letter was out in the public domain. But that NYT article was pretty obscure and that nagging detail in the Confession about the phone call has yet to be elucidated. Maybe the same reporter who tackles this story can also try to find out if a phone call was made to the police or press shortly after the Bates murder. If so, I believe that it is more likely that her killer, be he Z or not, wrote the Confession.

Mike

Well Said Mike, terrible police work, and a real injustice for Cheri’s Family. I dont think she has much Family left,maybe just her Brother. He should be rattling some cages

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 5:22 am
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

I would appeal to a Newspaper Reporter in Riverside as oppsoed to the law enforcement down there.
See if you can get a local, young Reporter interested in the case and get it opened up. I think on these unsolved
crimes, at some point, say 40 years later, law enforcement needs to share more of what it has in terms
of evidence, with the hopes of solving the case. Eventually all the suspects will be dead. Maybe we need legislation.
With Cheri Jo we have so much. We have the hair of her killer!

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 6:43 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

I know that RPD has provided misinformation over the years. Here is some info from the old deja.com message board that was in existence in the old days when I first started out in 1998. This is not the info I was looking for but it is an interview Butterfield did with Shumway.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr … gG2X-nhcsJ

And this from Butterfield’s MB:

"Morf — In 1999, I talked with Det. Steve Shumway who was then in charge of the Bates case. He told me — in no uncertain terms — that Bates was the victim of an O.J.-like rage killing, and that she had been stabbed as many as 42 times. The number of stab wounds served as the basis for the theory that Bates knew the killer, i.e. that the rage must have been something personal. As anyone who has studied crime can tell you, this theory is absurd, and there are thousands of cases in which a total stranger inflicted unspeakable violence on another stranger in a fit of non-personal rage.
Then the DNA testing failed to implicate their pet suspect. Then the autopsy reports leaked, proving that Bates was actually stabbed less than ten times total. So, it’s clear that the RPD was either actively engaged in deception or embracing deliberate ignorance. Either way, it’s clear that their theory of the case has completely fallen apart, leaving the Zodiac as the only logical suspect. If the RPD were to admit that they had made a mistake and had been investigating and blaming the wrong suspect for more than 40 years, they would not only be forced to admit that they let a murderer remain free, but that the killer most likely went on to claim even more lives due to their failure. My own research has led me to believe that the RPD will never admit this mistake and, therefore, they will never solve the Bates murder."

I agree with you 100% on this, and Shumway is the SAME Detective that told me that "CHERI JO BATES WAS NOT A ZODIAC VICTIM" , and I feel really sorry for her family as they too may be victims of shotty police work.

Pride is a stubborn thing! Instead of admitting they may have been wrong, RPD was too proud to ask for help, or look at other options. As soon as there was verification that Z was involved in at least one of the Bates case letters, and the desktop poem, they should have teamed up with the other jurisdictions, and pooled their resources."

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 12:58 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
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Topic starter
 

Steve Shumway must have had that same line prepared for everybody,as he told me the same thing. He did mention that if I had a Z suspect that had been in Riverside during Cheri’s murder, he would check it out. Maybe that was his way of saying that off the record, he was open to the idea? Not sure,but he retired,and I am not sure who is handling the case now

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 3:10 pm
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

The point is that RPD should be investigating ANYONE who may have killed Bates. I think we tend to divide the world into Barnett vs. Zodiac suspects. But just because Barnett didn’t kill her doesn’t mean Z did. There are many variables.

I am going to crawl out on a limb and say why I think is is virtually impossible that the hair found in CJB’s hand came from one of the investigators on the scene. First of all, it is absurd to imagine that several hairs from the head of one of the investigators got caught in a blood clot near the base of her thumb. Think about this: Her thumb probably was folded over the palm of her hand, so in order for the hair to get there it would have had to have fallen from someone’s head and somehow slipped under her thumb to the blood clot.

But even if somehow her thumb was not covering the blood clot, here is something else to consider:

Unless I am missing something, the reason they had to look for mtDNa from the hairs is that none of them had a root bulb. This means that the most likely manner in which they ended up in her hand is that she tore them out of the head of her attacker, and by tearing our I mean breaking off four piece of hair from longer pieces that remained inside the scalp of her attacker–they were not torn out by the roots, nor did the fall out of someone’s scalp. Had they fallen out of someone’s head and into her hand, or had she torn them roots and all from someone’s head, they would presumably have the roots attached–and all the nuclear DNA.

It goes without saying that CJB did not rip hair out of the heads of any of the detectives or crime scene techs the day she was discovered. Therefore, since the strands were presumably physically broken off from hair in someone’s head, they must come from her attacker.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : April 11, 2013 7:46 pm
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

I’ve reached out to a reporter in Riverside, who forwarded my email to another reporter, so we will see what happens.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : April 12, 2013 7:34 am
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

Hi-

I’ve reached out to a reporter in Riverside, who forwarded my email to another reporter, so we will see what happens.

Mike

Good Luck with it,I hope you make some waves. The RPD deserves to have a bright light shined on them

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 12, 2013 8:29 am
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
Member Moderator
 

Good stuff Mike.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : April 12, 2013 9:57 am
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