No I don’t think the killer personally knew Bates. I see no evidence of that. I don’t know if the killer lived in Riverside or not. Just as I don’t know if Zodiac lived in Vallejo or SF. Where I do agree with you is that the evidence shows the Bates killer was very likely to almost certainly the Riverside writer, and that one person likely became Zodiac.

I don’t think there were two killers who used Z, etc.

This will always be debated,but she likely spent some sort of time with him before she was killed. Why would a young girl walk off to the dark of an alley with a stranger and spend some time with him, as opposed to the safety of the library with people in it? I will NOT be convinced that it was a Stranger. Also, the confession letter stated, ‘making her pay for the brushoffs’ over the years. If the killer was a stranger,and was the confession writer, why would he need to write that letter? Misdirection? He’s a stranger, he wouldn’t need to misdirect them at all, he wouldnt be in her inner circle, he could stay silent,and not give them anything to work with. AK, I know you think that the confession letter was sent by her killer, but if it was, it would likely go against your argument that it was a stranger.

Well we have debated this to the point of diminishing returns. I can’t think of a murder case were the killer writes a letter honestly stating he personally knew the victim. Why would the killer do that? If he did do that then he’s an idiot. And Zodiac, we can debate if he was a genius or not, but he was not an idiot.

Nobody wants to deal with the reported fact the poem was written on the underside of a desk, as if someone grabbed it from a stack of desks, not as if it was an idle student writing.

Intelligent serial killers would leave false clues for misdirection. A girl is killed. Was the killer local or out of town? If out of town the police might look at flight, bus, train and cab records, question bus drivers, etc., look for past or future murders with MO similarities in other cities, etc. If local, then focus on friends, fellow students, etc. And yes I know one serial killer in particular who wrote false confession letters, calls and clues, in each instance to make it seem the murder was done by a local person, not an outsider.

In 1966 people were more trusting. In November 1966 in Riverside a girl got into a car with a complete stranger. The man referenced the Bates murder, then said "After all I’m not Jack the Ripper", then attacked her. Was this the Bates killer? Probably. But it shows how trusting people were back then. IMO a normal looking good Samaritan, offering to drive Cheri to a gas station or home, would have seemed OK to Cheri.

IMO the facts and evidence are very strong that the Bates killer was very likely the Riverside writer and that he became Zodiac. I know you (Morf) agree with me on Riverside writer = Zodiac, but disagree on Riverside writer = Bates killer.

I’m content to leave it there.

Well we have debated this to the point of diminishing returns. I can’t think of a murder case were the killer writes a letter honestly stating he personally knew the victim. Why would the killer do that? If he did do that then he’s an idiot. And Zodiac, we can debate if he was a genius or not, but he was not an idiot.

Nobody wants to deal with the reported fact the poem was written on the underside of a desk, as if someone grabbed it from a stack of desks, not as if it was an idle student writing.

Intelligent serial killers would leave false clues for misdirection. A girl is killed. Was the killer local or out of town? If out of town the police might look at flight, bus, train and cab records, question bus drivers, etc., look for past or future murders with MO similarities in other cities, etc. If local, then focus on friends, fellow students, etc. And yes I know one serial killer in particular who wrote false confession letters, calls and clues, in each instance to make it seem the murder was done by a local person, not an outsider.

In 1966 people were more trusting. In November 1966 in Riverside a girl got into a car with a complete stranger. The man referenced the Bates murder, then said "After all I’m not Jack the Ripper", then attacked her. Was this the Bates killer? Probably. But it shows how trusting people were back then. IMO a normal looking good Samaritan, offering to drive Cheri to a gas station or home, would have seemed OK to Cheri.

IMO the facts and evidence are very strong that the Bates killer was very likely the Riverside writer and that he became Zodiac. I know you (Morf) agree with me on Riverside writer = Zodiac, but disagree on Riverside writer = Bates killer.

I’m content to leave it there.

For me, the whole Bates case connection to the z case is the most frustrating part of this mystery

For me, the whole Bates case connection to the z case is the most frustrating part of this mystery

i don’t think it’s that big of a deal as far as solving anything. if zodiac killed bates and/or wrote the bates letters then he probably lived in/around riverside. if he just took credit for "riverside activities" then he probably didn’t. unless the bates murder is solved and that person can be further linked to zodiac then all not knowing does is cause some people to waste time looking for people who lived in/around riverside or who had a connection to bates and then later to vallejo/san fran, etc when it might not really matter. frankly, the amount of time wasted over the last forty years on dead ends likely makes concerns about wasting time a moot point. just my 2 cents.

I think the desktop poem was written by Bates’ killer BEFORE her murder. I believe the poem was a product of homicidal thoughts erupting from his subconscious and which he was trying to contain by, in a sense, opening a safety valve: the poem. Unfortunately for the evolved Zodiac, he signed the poem with his initials which is why he never claimed credit for Bates’ murder until connected to it by Morrill. Also, I understand the poem was written on the underside of a folding-top desk, which would remove the necessity of a student turning it upside down to write the poem.

I was just looking at http://www.zodiackiller.com and this FBI report mentions that no extortion case would be involved with the confession letter because "there is no victim named or details enough to pinpoint a victim".

http://zodiackiller.com/FBIReport1.html

Did he (Lally, L.A. ’66) not read the letter? Shows how not paying enough attention to something can lead you to miss the obvious.