It’s this web that as a whole creates one big coincidence that is quite extraordinary.
I agree.
That was too much!
The ‘troubled teen’ has nothing to do with the case..and if he had, for whom did he write them..?
QT
*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*
At face value, the primary purpose of the release is to announce the reward money. So far, so good.
Perhaps the RPD are using the tactic of “teasing the line” a bit. If they think someone local still has information to provide, a PR tactic like this can sometimes shake that person(s) out from the woodwork.
On the surface, it appears the reward wasn’t proactively introduced by RPD as part of their CJB investigation. Rather, it’s come about due to an approach by a private citizen. Of course, that’s according to the press release…
"Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas." Albert Einstein
@quicktrader what do you mean he had nothing to do with the case?
“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer
I was always skeptical of Bates being a Z crime. Probably because of the lengthy time between killings and him not mentioning it himself when he was first looking for notoriety. He took credit for prior killing for a reason. If you’re looking for credit do you want more or less? Probably more. So why not mention a previous third victim when claiming the previous two?
He was CLEARED. Just because some computer weirdo claims to have written those letters..what if I claimed I had written them?? This is all nonsense, the letters were written, the guy had exactly nothing (!) to do with it, certainly. So why should they be a hoax – I don’t get it.
Or should I claim to having written them, to make them ‘real’ again? Bogus..
Even If RPD claimed his statement to be true, why shouldn’t be mine..they never claimed the letters to be a hoax, thus, title of this thread, well..
I once wrote Maria-Theresia a letter but that doesn’t make me Louis XIV..
QT
*ZODIACHRONOLOGY*
I can’t make sense of your post.
He was CLEARED. Just because some computer weirdo claims to have written those letters..what if I claimed I had written them?? This is all nonsense, the letters were written, the guy had exactly nothing (!) to do with it, certainly. So why should they be a hoax – I don’t get it.
Or should I claim to having written them, to make them ‘real’ again? Bogus..
Even If RPD claimed his statement to be true, why shouldn’t be mine..they never claimed the letters to be a hoax, thus, title of this thread, well..
I once wrote Maria-Theresia a letter but that doesn’t make me Louis XIV..
QT
Well, to your first point, Toschi was “officially” cleared, but he was demoted and unofficially SFPD has hinted that it was him.
To your second point, we don’t know HOW this “troubled teen” was connected by RPD. Their explanation is vague to be sure, but I’m unwilling, at this point, to believe that they just took his word for it.
“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer
That’s right. But that creates possibly the most bizarre of all possible scenarios, one in which the writer of the Bates letters presages the Zodiac by using the “Z” like symbol, and then Zodiac copies the Bates letters. It’s possible, but it’s quite extraordinary. And then someone still killed Cheri Jo, so you end up with three different people all involved in this kind of circular game of copycat. It just seems very circular, like the logic loops somehow. I suppose it doesn’t.
Let me think about this for a minute, the Zodiac copies the Bates case, the “Z” is either a coincidence or contributed to the Zodiac’s choice of name. I suppose technically the only thing really odd about it is the “Z”. Wait, I think I know what’s unlikely about it, why would the Zodiac include so many subtle hints to the Bates case? It could only be because he wanted people to connect him to it, but then if that is the case why wasn’t he a bit more overt and eager for the connection to be made. He could have been inspired by the idea of writing letters, without having to copy the Bates case in such a way that it connected him to it, yet instead, he planted subtle clues that only work if you know about the Bates case. No, it just seems arse backwards.
All other discussions in this thread aside, the above sums up the situation pretty well in my opinion. I’ve always been a fence-sitter with this case so I have no skin in this game. But I do know that RPD have hardly covered themselves in glory and I don’t have much confidence in their statement.
Is there any way (aside from confirming as-yet-undisclosed evidence) that someone could really prove they scrawled those 3 notes all those years ago?
Check out my website: www.darkideas.net
That there were numerous cranks involving themselves or contacting police in regard to the murder of Cheri Jo Bates is shown by this article, where Captain Irvin Cross told the press they had received “numerous crank calls since the murder”
So the idea of multiple people involving themselves or hoaxing things or acting like cranks is not that far-fetched.
I’ve come around. The police aren’t infallible, but they’re not stupid. They’d be used to cranks claiming involvement, so I’ve got to believe they saw something different in this particular individual’s claim. I went through a couple of phases, the first was unquestioning acceptance, then cognitive dissonance, and now I’m back to a more satisfying state of acceptance. I just wish they’d put out some more info about what exactly took place.
EDITED to include link I forgot and to correct text:
Hey everyone! I was just watching this video (linked below) and something just jumped into my brain. There was a “Mexican” that claims to have seen Cheri Jo in the library writing something in her blue notebook with a ballpoint pen. Then I see on Richard Grinell’s page that the “desktop poem” was written with a blue ballpoint pen. I looked at the pages and they are lined just like random notebook paper would be. And of the same 8 1/2 x 11 size as well. Would it be possible at all that this pen and that paper that the guy saw her using was the same used for the letters???? The report does say that a blue ball point was used for the desktop poem….I always thought for some reason that the Bates Had to Die letters were in pencil. Does anyone know??
Forgive me if this has been brought up before. And I know that Riverside has ‘proven’ that they were hoaxed …. but I still just somehow don’t buy that.
Any thoughts?????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luJt4GKWj5k
EDITED to include link I forgot and to correct text:
Hey everyone! I was just watching this video (linked below) and something just jumped into my brain. There was a “Mexican” that claims to have seen Cheri Jo in the library writing something in her blue notebook with a ballpoint pen. Then I see on Richard Grinell’s page that the “desktop poem” was written with a blue ballpoint pen. I looked at the pages and they are lined just like random notebook paper would be. And of the same 8 1/2 x 11 size as well. Would it be possible at all that this pen and that paper that the guy saw her using was the same used for the letters???? The report does say that a blue ball point was used for the desktop poem….I always thought for some reason that the Bates Had to Die letters were in pencil. Does anyone know??
Forgive me if this has been brought up before. And I know that Riverside has ‘proven’ that they were hoaxed …. but I still just somehow don’t buy that.
Any thoughts?????
I’m not certain either way, but in absence of a DNA match to the evidence (which Riverside Police do not claim to have in their 2021 Update) I too tend to believe that the killer wrote those notes. The Had to Die notes look like they were written in pencil to me. Graysmith wrote that they were penciled in Unmasked (p 445) but the DOJ Report doesn’t specify. To me the Z-like squiggles look like marks made to test a pencil edge.
The ‘troubled teen’ has nothing to do with the case..and if he had, for whom did he write them..?
Agreed.
In particular, “late revelations” in famous cold cases should give everyone pause. Fifty years later this speculative evidence arises, appearing under questionable circumstances? Where are the critical thinking hats? Under the bed?
That was too much!
EDITED to include link I forgot and to correct text:
Hey everyone! I was just watching this video (linked below) and something just jumped into my brain. There was a “Mexican” that claims to have seen Cheri Jo in the library writing something in her blue notebook with a ballpoint pen. Then I see on Richard Grinell’s page that the “desktop poem” was written with a blue ballpoint pen. I looked at the pages and they are lined just like random notebook paper would be. And of the same 8 1/2 x 11 size as well. Would it be possible at all that this pen and that paper that the guy saw her using was the same used for the letters???? The report does say that a blue ball point was used for the desktop poem….I always thought for some reason that the Bates Had to Die letters were in pencil. Does anyone know??
Forgive me if this has been brought up before. And I know that Riverside has ‘proven’ that they were hoaxed …. but I still just somehow don’t buy that.
Any thoughts?????
I’m not certain either way, but in absence of a DNA match to the evidence (which Riverside Police do not claim to have in their 2021 Update) I too tend to believe that the killer wrote those notes. The Had to Die notes look like they were written in pencil to me. Graysmith wrote that they were penciled in Unmasked (p 445) but the DOJ Report doesn’t specify. To me the Z-like squiggles look like marks made to test a pencil edge.
There is one thing which people either fail to mention or simply do not know in regards to the Bates had to die letters. LE would NOT need DNA to confirm if the alleged hoaxer sent them. Simply compare his fingerprints to the ones on one of letters, And you have your proof without DNA.
