Thanks, Morf! I added Butterfield’s article to my Favorites.

Thanks Morf, great article (still waiting for your blog article on James Owen btw!)
Mike Butterfield gets a lot of stick online but, reading this article, I can see why he’s always been prominent in the community. He may be a bit too hardline with what he considers to be irrefutable facts for my liking, but his passion for and knowledge of the case is obvious.

Hi-

The problem in linking Bates, which certainly would suit me since my suspect had a very good reason to be in Riverside on the weekend of October 29-30, 1966, is that the murder seems to suggest either a power-reassurance killer or an anger-retaliatory killer. Richard Walter does not believe this is the work of a power-assertive killer, which is the profile he determined for Zodiac in 2004. I will end this analysis by reminding everyone that Mr. Walter has solved cold cases in the past and assists numerous departments every year with their toughest cases. In other words, unlike the rest of us, he has a track record of success in solving and helping to solve cold cases.

One disclaimer: Mr. Walter usually is approached by LE to examine a case and has access to all the case files, crime scene photos, etc. He therefore cannot make a definitive determination as to the profile of the Bates killer given that he currently does not have access to these materials. If Riverside wished to ask for his assistance, I believe that he would re-examine this case for them. However, we all know that is not going to happen based on how insular Riverside seem to be at the present time. Nonetheless, I still think we are all fortunate to have someone of Mr. Walter’s accomplishments weighing in at all on the Bates and Zodiac cases.

Mike

One of the problems in linking in CJB is that the footprints at Berryessa and Riverside differ in size considerably.
Still, hey ho, there’s always a set of Ted shoes to consider!

Hi-

So Smithy, we meet again.

I have to say that I think that one of the real fallacies about the case is the literal interpretation of the shoe prints at LB. I am not saying that the guy at Riverside is the same guy at LB. But let’s be honest: Disguising shoe size is child’s play. A guy who fits a size 8-10 in Riverside can buy some over sized Wing Walkers at size 10 1/2 for LB and just stuff the old tissue paper in the toes. Simple as a dimple and now a guy with size nine hoofs has everyone looking for a guy with size 10 1/2.

Other things can easily be disguised to throw off the police but you get the picture. Trod heavily through that soft ground!

Mike

FWIW I think Zodiac was peculiarly dangerous.

He was a killer , a mixer, and a thinker. His ‘game’ was to confuse and outsmart so in that respect no hypothesis should be off the table. The basis however should be clear. He kills. Whilst most killers may use subterfuge to avoid capture, my feeling is that Zodiac used this as part of his ‘game’. The kill was only part but the rest also played an important and integral role in his mind. A bigger picture if you will.

You may theorize that his reasons for semi-admitting involvement in the CJB crime were to bolster his resume but (as MB relates in his blog) how does that fit into what little we know about his actions? It fits because (for me) he was the responsible albeit early in his career. How early? I don’t know. Look, from what I’ve seen myself in the handwriting he wrote those letters. Now it’s not a great leap of faith to assume that he was also the killer.

Once we accept that then maybe we can start to investigate how that admission fits into his thinking and maybe we can find a way to understand his plan. At the very least to help make sense of the questionable letters and communications and from that give us some more insight.

To add: If subterfuge is part of the game could he claim additional victims to muddy the waters? of course but I think MB’s blog addresses that. He didn’t, he may have hinted at it (I shot a man in a parked car) but he didn’t make it clear and that’s the subterfuge or misdirection part for me. We can’t assume that what we read from his letters is either fact or lie, we need to look at the wider picture and in that respect I think that MB is thinking in the right direction and probably has been for some time.

I’m not for anyone but in a way I am. I applaud and appreciate everyone’s input to this case, yes even Ray (special mention). There’s one thing I do know. IF we ever solve this case it won’t be solo effort. Sure, someone may discover something that blows this whole thing wide open but how to be sure? We ask each other. Whether that be on this forum or from other sites. We’re a glorious calamity but maybe, just maybe – we’ll get there. God knows we have the privilege of the research of those that have gone before us and are still with us.

Thanks for your input, Trav! To be honest, sometimes I wonder if our efforts are in vain. From my experiences, and those recounted by others, LE seems indifferent–if not actually hostile–to our sleuthing. Granted, like all of us here, I enjoy playing detective; to me, it’s an intellectual exercise of a high order. But, always, I hope to discover Z’s identity, or at least assist in achieving that goal.
Question: Is/are there any bona fide LE officials or departments that would seriously consider our contributions re identifying Z?

Thanks for your input, Trav! To be honest, sometimes I wonder if our efforts are in vain. From my experiences, and those recounted by others, LE seems indifferent–if not actually hostile–to our sleuthing. Granted, like all of us here, I enjoy playing detective; to me, it’s an intellectual exercise of a high order. But, always, I hope to discover Z’s identity, or at least assist in achieving that goal.
Question: Is/are there any bona fide LE officials or departments that would seriously consider our contributions re identifying Z?

There are. I can’t speak for all but during the Manalli instance Morf was in touch with Napa LE and our "discoveries" were passed on to them and they were interested. LE in general aren’t averse to our digging but as we ourselves come to realise, it is just digging and we try not to flood LE with unsubstantiable info. As a team (members included) we have to decide if we might be on to something. That’s the glory of a forum.

Hi-

The problem in linking Bates, which certainly would suit me since my suspect had a very good reason to be in Riverside on the weekend of October 29-30, 1966, is that the murder seems to suggest either a power-reassurance killer or an anger-retaliatory killer.

Mike

Agreed.

The FBI, amongst other professionals in the field of handwriting did NOT concur the letters were the work of Zodiac.

When it is written that none of these crimes were solved, therefore, the most logical reasoning is it was Zodiac, I disagree. I wouldn’t doubt if somewhere Zodiac had read about a six month time frame in regards to unsolved crimes. We all know even just a few days after a crime, the chance of finding the perp diminishes greatly. After six months? Chances are pretty good you won’t find who did it. Especially in the case of Kathleen Johns. And when you are vague, as Zodiac was with so many…it doesn’t matter anyway.

The crimes he claimed right away? Those are the ones I believe to be the best bet of finding out who he is.

On a side note, it seems as if MB has changed his tone a bit. ?

Mike R., I couldn’t tell exactly from what you said, did Richard Walter evaluate Cheri’s case along with Zodiac?

Hi-

The problem in linking Bates, which certainly would suit me since my suspect had a very good reason to be in Riverside on the weekend of October 29-30, 1966, is that the murder seems to suggest either a power-reassurance killer or an anger-retaliatory killer.

Mike

Agreed.

The FBI, amongst other professionals in the field of handwriting did NOT concur the letters were the work of Zodiac.

When it is written that none of these crimes were solved, therefore, the most logical reasoning is it was Zodiac, I disagree. I wouldn’t doubt if somewhere Zodiac had read about a six month time frame in regards to unsolved crimes. We all know even just a few days after a crime, the chance of finding the perp diminishes greatly. After six months? Chances are pretty good you won’t find who did it. Especially in the case of Kathleen Johns. And when you are vague, as Zodiac was with so many…it doesn’t matter anyway.

The crimes he claimed right away? Those are the ones I believe to be the best bet of finding out who he is.

On a side note, it seems as if MB has changed his tone a bit. ?

"The FBI, amongst other professionals in the field of handwriting did NOT concur the letters were the work of Zodiac"

I would have to once again present the FBI memo regarding that writing, which in short, mentions the disagreement between Shimoda & Morrill, but their final conclusion is, they see some strong similarities- "CONSISTENT HAND PRINTING CHARACTERISTICS"

That is what I see when I look at these letters. There is a consistency and commonality between them. Despite their different styles I feel that the commonality is attributable because of a common author. For me this is what the FBI are stating here. They can’t be 100% because of the differences but despite those there is something familiar across all of these letters. It showed through for them and I can see it as well. Doesn’t mean they are right or myself for that matter but I would side with them being right without being able to openly confirm it.

I think they were trying not to step on anyones toes and also shift the decision back to those best suited and qualified to make it. This notion of copycatting doesn’t fly with me. Sure the 78 letter might be one example but I believe that Z wrote the later letters in a different style and it’s no surprise to me that he would have written the CJB letters in a disguised hand. For me this ability was in his repertoire and he used it as it suited him. The later letters may simply be an indication that this skill had become more refined over the intervening years.

I think he was more than aware of this ‘confusion’ over the letters and took the chance to have a little fun with the later letters and differing styles. I don’t think even he could have envisaged the exorcist letter being disputed but probably understood the reasons eventually and on the back of that sent the other letters. Always testing, always seeking to be in control, of every situation.

I see this behaviour in the CJB letters. One typed, three written. Always things in three’s. The minimum number for doubt, one real? one not? one maybe?

Hi-
So Smithy, we meet again.
Mike

Hi Mike!
Say – are those new shoes?

That letter from the Chief always cracks me up. "Zodiac is a mass murderer to whom we have attributed six known victims since 1966…"
What was it he wanted confirmation of, again?

Look, from what I’ve seen myself in the handwriting he wrote those letters. Now it’s not a great leap of faith to assume that he was also the killer.

Trav. I’m never ever going to write to you, just in case (God forbid!) someone murders you sometime, huh?
I don’t want any tiny leaps of faith puttin’ me in prison, y’know!

Hi-

I verbally described the circumstances and the crime scene to Mr. Walter a few years ago and we discussed it at that time. He said it does not sound like a P-A murder, which is what Zodiac was. The best he could come up with is either a P-R or an A-R (found face down, angry stab wound in the back). If he had all the police files, he’d be able to come up with a definitive profile. But we won’t hold our collective breath waiting for RPD to contact him. He does NOT solicit cases, so he won’t call them to ask if they’ll allow him to review it. He has plenty to do without the Bates case, trust me.

Mike