Hi-

I verbally described the circumstances and the crime scene to Mr. Walter a few years ago and we discussed it at that time. He said it does not sound like a P-A murder, which is what Zodiac was. The best he could come up with is either a P-R or an A-R (found face down, angry stab wound in the back). If he had all the police files, he’d be able to come up with a definitive profile. But we won’t hold our collective breath waiting for RPD to contact him. He does NOT solicit cases, so he won’t call them to ask if they’ll allow him to review it. He has plenty to do without the Bates case, trust me.

Mike

They should give him a shot. If they want us Zodiac people to stop bothering them once and for all, they will get off their ass and start looking at other possibilities besides the one suspect they have who does NOT fit the DNA evidence that they have

RPD is an enigma. Did they get DNA off the "Bates had to Die" letters or the "Confession?" Nobody knows.

Mike

RPD is an enigma. Did they get DNA off the "Bates had to Die" letters or the "Confession?" Nobody knows.

Mike

As far as I’m aware, the only DNA in Cheri’s case is the stuff they found under her nails and in her hand.

Look, from what I’ve seen myself in the handwriting he wrote those letters. Now it’s not a great leap of faith to assume that he was also the killer.

Trav. I’m never ever going to write to you, just in case (God forbid!) someone murders you sometime, huh?
I don’t want any tiny leaps of faith puttin’ me in prison, y’know!

I would try an arrange it so that my cold dead corpse had the same number and type of stamps on it as you would have used on your letter – just to add mystery.

"The FBI, amongst other professionals in the field of handwriting did NOT concur the letters were the work of Zodiac

I would have to once again present the FBI memo regarding that writing, which in short, mentions the disagreement between Shimoda & Morrill, but their final conclusion is, they see some strong similarities- "CONSISTENT HAND PRINTING CHARACTERISTICS"

The ultimate conclusion though was "INCONCLUSIVE".

While there were similarities in characteristics, they could not say these writings were at the hand of Zodiac. "May have" just doesn’t make it so.

Here is link to where we were discussing it before…a letter from 1974: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=91

Pg 2: It was not determined whether the questioned hand printing was prepared by the writers of the Zodiac letters. (not in quotes)

Hey, it’s interesting to discuss. I think we’d all agree the actual letters really don’t look anything like Zodiac’s handwriting. What we are considering, for the most part, are the envelopes right? Envelopes which at the time, and the type of stamps used, would have REQUIRED two stamps.

Not for me T. I consider the envelopes and the contents. I look at pen to paper and all the aspects of that. Inside, outside, upside down on wood, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what’s physically there that concerns me and the styling contained therein.

Not for me T. I consider the envelopes and the contents. I look at pen to paper and all the aspects of that. Inside, outside, upside down on wood, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what’s physically there that concerns me and the styling contained therein.

Shimoda and the F.B.I. did as well. I did too, but hey, we aren’t pros so what we think doesn’t stand up.

Yes we look at it, but do you think the actual letters look like the writing of Zodiac? Because if you do..I’m really going to re-evaluate my perception of your judgment! (just messin’ with you)

Not for me T. I consider the envelopes and the contents. I look at pen to paper and all the aspects of that. Inside, outside, upside down on wood, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what’s physically there that concerns me and the styling contained therein.

Shimoda and the F.B.I. did as well. I did too, but hey, we aren’t pros so what we think doesn’t stand up.

Yes we look at it, but do you think the actual letters look like the writing of Zodiac? Because if you do..I’m really going to re-evaluate my perception of your judgment! (just messin’ with you)

Evaluate away. I’m still learning but I do believe that what know or have as letters from him are most likely 99% from him. I have found no major contradiction in the styles despite how they look. To me they are the same author.If I do find a problem I will present it. I’m not the sort of person that needs to be right. I welcome being wrong with the assistance of yourself and other members. It’s how we operate, we hash things out.

Evaluate away. I’m still learning but I do believe that what know or have as letters from him are most likely 99% from him. I have found no major contradiction in the styles despite how they look. To me they are the same author.If I do find a problem I will present it. I’m not the sort of person that needs to be right. I welcome being wrong with the assistance of yourself and other members. It’s how we operate, we hash things out.

So you feel, the actual three letters inside the envelopes, look like Zodiac’s handwriting?

Not for me T. I consider the envelopes and the contents. I look at pen to paper and all the aspects of that. Inside, outside, upside down on wood, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what’s physically there that concerns me and the styling contained therein.

Shimoda and the F.B.I. did as well. I did too, but hey, we aren’t pros so what we think doesn’t stand up.

Yes we look at it, but do you think the actual letters look like the writing of Zodiac? Because if you do..I’m really going to re-evaluate my perception of your judgment! (just messin’ with you)

TRAV, break out a side by side comparison in hi def Tahoe, you’re going to make Trav take on an extra project

Evaluate away. I’m still learning but I do believe that what know or have as letters from him are most likely 99% from him. I have found no major contradiction in the styles despite how they look. To me they are the same author.If I do find a problem I will present it. I’m not the sort of person that needs to be right. I welcome being wrong with the assistance of yourself and other members. It’s how we operate, we hash things out.

So you feel, the actual three letters inside the envelopes, look like Zodiac’s handwriting?

To what I look for, yes, I do. They are different styles but that to me is intriguing. i look at them and I see him T, I see his style, his footprint. Once I might have considered the differing styles as an indication of another author but not anymore. To me they are all the same person, I look beyond the styles to the striking similarities in habits and use of space and they are very compelling.

I’ll keep working at it though and if I even begin to suspect subterfuge or fakery I’ll present it. I have no problem being wrong, that’s not what were about. I’d rather we get as close to the truth as possible and as such I”m always mindful or your objections regarding certain letters. Ying to my yang you are, as Yoda might say.

As for Zodiac’s handwriting. How sure are you that what you consider that to be that is actually his handwriting? I don’t mean that he didn’t pen it but is it his handwriting or is it another construct as the later letters were?

Not for me T. I consider the envelopes and the contents. I look at pen to paper and all the aspects of that. Inside, outside, upside down on wood, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what’s physically there that concerns me and the styling contained therein.

Shimoda and the F.B.I. did as well. I did too, but hey, we aren’t pros so what we think doesn’t stand up.

Yes we look at it, but do you think the actual letters look like the writing of Zodiac? Because if you do..I’m really going to re-evaluate my perception of your judgment! (just messin’ with you)

TRAV, break out a side by side comparison in hi def Tahoe, you’re going to make Trav take on an extra project

I know Trav has put in a lot of work with the side-by-sides. No need to again here. There isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell you can convince me the letters inside the envelopes look like Zodiac’s handwriting.

Ah I can’t help but love your objections you beautiful evil witch. . No really, I admire and am inspired by your objections. They guide me.

Just to clarify. I might joke about Tahoe’s contributions in this matter but I do find them important and invaluable. Her observations regarding handwriting have been important and insightful. Her counter arguments to me are very important and compelling and I can’t just gloss over them. Her contributions are always foremost in my mind when looking at this stuff. If we are to discover forgeries in this I believe that T’s contributions are very important and observant.

Just to clarify. I might joke about Tahoe’s contributions in this matter but I do find them important and invaluable. Her observations regarding handwriting have been important and insightful. Her counter arguments to me are very important and compelling and I can’t just gloss over them. Her contributions are always foremost in my mind when looking at this stuff. If we are to discover forgeries in this I believe that T’s contributions are very important and observant.

I agree,I think that findings should be able to stand up to the harshest of critics, and that actually challenges Trav. I have a friendly challenge for Trav…..take the letter(s) that Tahoe thinks is definitely Zodiac’s writing,and compare that to Riverside writings,and see what she thinks.(I am awfully generous with Trav’s time )

These were some good side by sides that Trav created between known Z writing,and Bates case writing: