Zodiac Discussion Forum

morf13 · 2013-03-31T03:49:05Z

Last year,I was fortunate to interview Phil Sins. Phil Sins was the first person to connect the Bates case to Zodiac. He initially went to Riverside PD with his suspicions, but was rebuffed. He then decided to contact SF Chronicle Reporter,Paul Avery after he read one of Avery's Zodiac articles. The connection was published in the press, Sherwood Morrill confirmed the Bates case writing was that of Zodiac's,and the rest is history. HERE IS THE RESULT OF MY TALKING WITH MR. SINS: One thing I have to mention is that he is up there in age around 80 years old, and I know my Grandfather who is 83 is definitely not as sharp as he used to be,and thats not to make Mr Sins sound like he does not have all his faculties, etc. In addition, he is dealing with some health issues within his Family, so I was happy to talk with him for the 20-30 minutes that we got on the phone,as he has alot on his mind. Again this is all based on his recollection from 40+ years ago. *He states, as far as he can remember, that he did NOT write a letter to Paul Avery, that he actually called him on the phone. *He states that as far as he can remember, he initially asked Avery to contact Riverside Police, and that he only got involved directly with RPD, AFTER he made contact with Avery. *He states that Avery came down to Riverside,and that they went to the police station in Riverside, where the letters & desktop were discussed or shown, but that he himself did NOT get to see them. *He states that Captain Cross treated him like a suspect, and that Riverside PD asked for a sample of Mr Sins' hair, and he complied and gave it to them. He was not worried since he knew he didnt kill her, but they never got back to him regarding his hair sample after he gave it. *He states that although he gave a hair sample, he never gave a writing sample *He states that he talked to Avery several times by phone, and went up to SF a few times and met with him. On one of these trips up there with his Family in tow, he says he witnessed a car following a woman closely. The details seemed sketchy in his mind, but he stated that the driver wound up on foot chasing the woman, and that he himself chased after the attacker, but could not catch him. I asked him if he called police, and he said he was trying to find a phone closeby,but was unable to. He described the guy as stocky, muscular, and pretty tall maybe around 6ft...with no glasses. * As has been reported, he DID SAY that he contacted Vallejo PD at some point as well. *He states that he did not even know his name was out there on the net in relation to the Zodiac case,and that he has never been contacted before about his involvement. He says that he hopes he can help, and was glad to do so,but hopes I can spread the word for him so that he is not contacted by others. *He states that he never receievd any weird letters or phone calls over the years. I read over the phone the details of the letter that he supposedly wrote to Avery seen here:... ect_7.html He states he really doesnt remember writing that, and that it does not sound familiar.(Again he is 80 years old, so maybe he cant rememebr clearly) It's pretty obvious that Mr Sins,IS REAL,and that he did contact Avery whether it was by letter or phone really doesnt matter. Some of the facts he seemed to be mixed up on but remembered a few things overall. He remembered that Cheri had a Boyfriend that had moved to SF area. He remembered that Toschi was accused of writing a fake Z letter. Also, I think much of what he remembers, he got out of newspapers,one such item was how Zodiac,as described in a newspaper,was laughing uncontrollaby as he stabbed Cecelia. He stated that he linked the two cases just by the overall similarity in the taunting letters. It also got his attention that Bates was killed on Halloween Eve and Z sent a Halloween card. He told Avery to look into it, and get a writing expert as there were writing samples in Riverside. He says he has monitored the case since making the connection. He himself never had any suspects nor did he have any theories in particular. There are no smoking gun clues here,but a few surprising things. At least we know that he is a real person, and that some of what was reported has some basis in reality. I thanked him and he told me that if he could think of anything else important, he would call me. It was very nice & helpful of him to take the time to talk with me despite having things going on in his own life right now. It's always cool to hear from the real people that we have talked about all these years!

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My Interview With Phil Sins

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Cheri Jo Bates 10/30/66

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snooter

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And i remember X having involvement with hartnell’s car..cant remeber exactly what but it was connected to X…i think

Are you saying Mr X aka KQ had something to do with Hartnells car ?

I think mike r found a link back to x..means zilch..all vw’s would have come thru x as he was the west coast importer..may be mike r can set this straight as i have just forgotten

Posted : February 12, 2016 8:03 am

sandy betts

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And i remember X having involvement with hartnell’s car..cant remeber exactly what but it was connected to X…i think

Are you saying Mr X aka KQ had something to do with Hartnells car ?

I think mike r found a link back to x..means zilch..all vw’s would have come thru x as he was the west coast importer..may be mike r can set this straight as i have just forgotten

I thought KQ sold British made cars? KQ having a connection to Bryans car would be too much of a coincidence , sorry but I am having a hard time believing that.
If KQ was also selling German cars they were probably new cars and as Seagull mentioned, Bryan’s car was a 1956 and he didn’t buy it new, so for KQ to have something to do with that car is rather doubtful. I hope that Mike R sees this and chimes in , he is the number one person who investigated KQ.

A dear friend of mine was a good friend of KQ’s, they both were into race horses as well as fine cars. My friend had nothing but nice things to say about KQ.

Posted : February 12, 2016 11:02 am

snooter

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X was the sole importer of vw’s early on..he was it…x sold british imports (like allard), vw’s and even had a jeep dealership early on..i read where x had 80% of the imports of vw at one time for the entire us of a (very early on)…x even built the camper bus top..it was called the riveria and it was done by x due to westfalia camper being next to impossible to get….cjb vw had to have come thru x at some point and so did hartnell karmann ghia (thats a vw)…it means nothing but it is just interesting…if we could ever put x at LB it woul be interesting…still like to know the name of x’s boat but mike r aint saying..dont read anything into my post but i seem to remember hartnell bought his karman ghia from a mechanic at one of x’s dealership

Posted : February 12, 2016 11:14 am

Seagull

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If there is any connection between X and Hartnell’s VW it is very distant. Hartnell had a 1956 KG and bought it used in Oregon.

www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com

Posted : February 12, 2016 7:21 pm

morf13

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If there is any connection between X and Hartnell’s VW it is very distant. Hartnell had a 1956 KG and bought it used in Oregon.

I think that anybody who endorses or considers MrX being Z, sees more in the fact Hartnell owned a VW then is likely there.

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

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Posted : February 12, 2016 10:33 pm

CMLO

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Can anyone please tell me where I can find information on how Mr. Sins knew about the Bates letters? Were they ever published in a newspaper prior to Avery’s involvement? Were they ever shown on TV? How did Sins know of similarities in the cases? Was he privy to inside information?

Thanks! :mrgreen: