Well there would be no need to disable her car if the plan is to approach her with a gun. The gun is the gun.

Well he couldn’t have loitered too close to her vehicle without being noticed. So IMHO he was waiting in his own parked car nearby. I feel he disabled her car just in case he didn’t get to her quickly enough to abduct; if she can start her car in theory she could floor it when approached. And he didn’t need to show a gun, he could have done a Bundy/DaRonch type ruse.

Well there would be no need to disable her car if the plan is to approach her with a gun. The gun is the gun.

Well he couldn’t have loitered too close to her vehicle without being noticed. So IMHO he was waiting in his own parked car nearby. I feel he disabled her car just in case he didn’t get to her quickly enough to abduct; if she can start her car in theory she could floor it when approached. And he didn’t need to show a gun, he could have done a Bundy/DaRonch type ruse.

And then he brings her back to the alley 3 hours later and she willingly walks in there with him, and doesn’t begin to struggle until he actually begins to kill her.

And then he brings her back to the alley 3 hours later and she willingly walks in there with him, and doesn’t begin to struggle until he actually begins to kill her.

"And then he brings her back to the alley" —

"Back to" the alley? WTF? Oh well, at least now I know you aren’t bothering to read my posts. FYI: In my scenario, and every other I have ever seen, she was taken from Terracina where her car was parked, and didn’t enter the alley until her demise.

Also…did Kathy Johns struggle as soon as she was in perceived danger? No. Did Hartnell and Shepard struggle as soon as they saw the gun? No. You seem new to the Zodiac case. Maybe new true crime altogether?

By the way: If he had a gun on Cheri, then she didn’t walk "willingly" into the alley.

Tom – you should actually know that he had used a knife, not a gun . This being more than enough, I’d say. And, btw, she went to the slaughter like a lamb..

QT

And then he brings her back to the alley 3 hours later and she willingly walks in there with him, and doesn’t begin to struggle until he actually begins to kill her.

"And then he brings her back to the alley" —

"Back to" the alley? WTF? Oh well, at least now I know you aren’t bothering to read my posts. FYI: In my scenario, and every other I have ever seen, she was taken from Terracina where her car was parked, and didn’t enter the alley until her demise.

I believe your theory is that after 3 hours holding her against her will, he brought her back to the vicinity of the library, but instead of to her car, or a phone booth, he brought her to the alley. Isn’t this what you are saying?

Also…did Kathy Johns struggle as soon as she was in perceived danger? No.

Thanks for helping me make my point. Johns recognized she was in danger and tried, successfully, to escape.

On the abduction theory a few thing seem not make sense in this scenario.

1. If she was abducted at 6.15 – 6.30ish this would mean that in the short amount of time her car would have had to have been tampered with, the battery discharged, CJB returning to the car, placing her items within the car, CJB attempting to start the vehicle and failing, the attacker approaching the abducting her and leaving the scene ?

2. We know from the limited information available that we have that she was seen at C6.10 ("they had seen Cheri Jo near her car the previous night" in regards to the 4 witnesses by the wall). They under separate interrogation relay nothing to indicate that she was distressed or having car trouble.

3. We then a number of people who knew her arriving at the Library at 6.30 and none of them reporting seeing her, given the prominent position of her car they would not have been able to fail to notice her, especially if she was having car trouble at this time.

So you have a c15 minute window of opportunity for all of point 1 to happen. Including the time it would take for her attacker to twice approach and leave her car, the men sitting on the wall to either leave that location or happen to not see the attacker of CJB just this short period. Not to mention her “friends” arriving in the vicinity / entering the library ?

My 2 cents, Cheri would not go into the dark alley with some creepy, serial killer looking type guy no matter what. If she went there willingly, the guy that she went with on some level had to put her mind at ease-she knew him, went to school with him, he was her age, something along those lines.

If her killer disabled her car and took her from the scene with the purpose trying to be killing her, why even bring her back? I think he was trying to get himself in a position just to have time together with her. If she went willingly to another spot then came back, after extended time, she likely knew him. If they never left and talked for hours together, she must have known him.

"she knew him, went to school with him," etc…
Or he was acquainted with her father and said he knew him, or
he just looked like a trustworthy type with shiny shoes, pressed
trousers, polite like the guy that stabbed Isobel Watson…

"she knew him, went to school with him," etc…
Or he was acquainted with her father and said he knew him, or
he just looked like a trustworthy type with shiny shoes, pressed
trousers, polite like the guy that stabbed Isobel Watson…

Maybe he was her neighbor, just around the corner. Like the one who was living in the same street as Darlene Ferrin (the one who went to the same school with David Faraday).

QT

"she knew him, went to school with him," etc…
Or he was acquainted with her father and said he knew him, or
he just looked like a trustworthy type with shiny shoes, pressed
trousers, polite like the guy that stabbed Isobel Watson…

Maybe he was her neighbor, the guy who lived just around the corner. The one who was living in the same street as Darlene Ferrin did but 500 miles north of Riverside. The one who went to the school David Faraday went to.

QT

Isn’t true they found Cheri’s shoe/sandal prints in the soil starting from the sidewalk leading about 75 feet
up the driveway and the Detectives determined she was walking a normal pace heel to toe, no sign she was
struggling, running, side stepping or otherwise resisting and the fact she was carrying her large tote bag purse
would seem to indicate she was not under any duress until she reached the point where she was attacked ?

Isn’t true they found Cheri’s shoe/sandal prints in the soil starting from the sidewalk leading about 75 feet
up the driveway and the Detectives determined she was walking a normal pace heel to toe, no sign she was
struggling, running, side stepping or otherwise resisting and the fact she was carrying her large tote bag purse
would seem to indicate she was not under any duress until she reached the point where she was attacked ?

Law enforcement stated that "the driveway adjacent to 3680 Terracina Street was so churned up it looked like a tractor had been over the ground. The girl, who was very athletic, put up a terrific struggle." There is every indication that Cheri Jo Bates valiantly fought for her life in excess of one minute. Probably two.

Isn’t true they found Cheri’s shoe/sandal prints in the soil starting from the sidewalk leading about 75 feet
up the driveway and the Detectives determined she was walking a normal pace heel to toe, no sign she was
struggling, running, side stepping or otherwise resisting and the fact she was carrying her large tote bag purse
would seem to indicate she was not under any duress until she reached the point where she was attacked ?

Law enforcement stated that "the driveway adjacent to 3680 Terracina Street was so churned up it looked like a tractor had been over the ground. The girl, who was very athletic, put up a terrific struggle." There is every indication that Cheri Jo Bates valiantly fought for her life in excess of one minute. Probably two.

Yes, at the SPOT where she was attacked but according to what I have read over the years most of that stretch of dirt
driveway (about 75 feet) there was no sign of a struggle just normal shoe prints spaced apart at a normal walking pace.

I think who ever killed her was someone who saw her everyday. Was obsessed with her, but kept that under wraps. She was comfortable around him and spoke to him often, but in know way fancied him. And he knew this. I reckon he created a scenario in which he could become her “night in shining armour” so say….I think he persuaded Cheri to go with him under the impression he was going to help her. After a while, she decided to go back to her car. Realising his time was running out to make his move, he did so. It didn’t go well and he got angry and what happened happened…….I reckon someone in his immediate family was a mechanic and that’s how he knew how to make a car not start.

Was it common knowledge at her college that those houses near the library were empty? If not, maybe after she discovered that her car wouldn’t start, she walked to those houses to ask to use the phone.