My doubting certain aspects of the Zodiac case has gotten some people so upset I have been cyber-stalked, my personal information shared (at the time, I could count on two hands the people who knew my real name, and on one finger the one I am no longer friendly with), and at the very least, received extremely rude replies from fellow posters. To be fair, I’m surely guilty of some snarkiness, but would never go to the extreme of some of these people just because I look at things differently.

There is a standard by many that most things ever mentioned as Zodiac, simply are. People read it so it must be true. I think that is why Graysmith got so much backlash–people believed him! Then, they come to discover some things he said weren’t facts of the case. How dare he! Now, they had to rethink their conclusions. It happened to me. I had different points of view prior to becoming more familiar with the facts. Doesn’t make me right…just less influenced by certain people.

Reasons Zodiac may NOT be involved? I simply don’t trust all of what we think we know. What has been shared is iffy imo, and we have to remember (as once told to me personally by a prominent, official investigator) that what the general public is offered is only the tip of the iceberg…especially with Cheri’s case.

If we simply accept things without questioning, imagine the innocent people who would be put in jail–and are. Imagine if people just gave up and took things for what they appeared to be without doubting, without questioning.

To sum it up best…for those of us that think Z was in Riverside, the connections & clues are so obvious,and for those of you that don’t think he was, the connections & clues are anything but obvious. Odd how people see things so differently, but it really makes you think

I think some things are deceivingly obvious. If that make sense.

On another site former member "Onewhoknows" stated the CADOJ met with her regarding her suspect in early 2011. According to her they were convinced Bates was NOT a Zodiac victim. As for evidence of her suspects guilt they requested a bloody piece of Stine’s shirt or a Sierra Club card. Very interesting. I’d love to know why they feel that way. Maybe the greasy prints on Bates VW don’t match? The DNA from the hair in Bates hand cannot be compared to the DNA from the Zodiac letters. As far as I know no comparison has been done on the DNA from the Bates and Zodiac letters.

On another site former member "Onewhoknows" stated the CADOJ met with her regarding her suspect in early 2011. According to her they were convinced Bates was NOT a Zodiac victim. As for evidence of her suspects guilt they requested a bloody piece of Stine’s shirt or a Sierra Club card. Very interesting. I’d love to know why they feel that way. Maybe the greasy prints on Bates VW don’t match? The DNA from the hair in Bates hand cannot be compared to the DNA from the Zodiac letters. As far as I know no comparison has been done on the DNA from the Bates and Zodiac letters.

It’s not known, but my guess is, the prints from Cheri’s car do not match Zodiac’s. Therefore, RPD dropped any Z involvement in her case. But make no mistake, RPD was at one time interested in Z being a possible perp in Cheri’s murder, and something(I am guessing prints or DNA not matching) got them cold on Z killing Bates. So even if DOJ says they don’t think Cheri was a Z victim, that does not mean Z was not in Riverside writing letters in her case.

Sierra Club card, eh?

Well, that’s certainly interesting if we can trust the info.

WWK wrote a book about her suspect (one which Mike Kelleher reviewed somewhere), unless I’m getting usernames mixed up.

To sum it up best…for those of us that think Z was in Riverside, the connections & clues are so obvious,and for those of you that don’t think he was, the connections & clues are anything but obvious. Odd how people see things so differently, but it really makes you think

That’s about it – yes.

Or, to put it slightly differently: To some the obvious clues and connections are so compelling that the discrepancies and problems we keep pestering you with – don’t matter. They’re noise – whereas the obvious ones are the signal. I can understand that very well – and it must be frustrating when people, as it were, refuse to see that signal.

For the doubters, however, it’s almost the other way around: The signal reads "not Z" and the obvious clues are coincidences or produced by someone other than Z.

I’d like to think that I’m not completely in that second category, though. I try as best I can to remain objective – seeing both sides. But part of that is – has to be – to acknowledge that it simply isn’t clear at this point what is noise and what is signal.

if CJB was known to frequent riverside int’l racetrack, or ascot park track it is possible X would have been close by…does anybody know what hobbies CJB engaged in?..i do like to ponder some theory that CJB brushed off the Z at some local venue..may be even a horse track.but achems razor would say jilted lover so look at the boyfriend…at this point id almost start to tear CJB life apart and see if any clue can be uncovered..tuff call because this case just eats me up

if CJB was known to frequent riverside int’l racetrack, or ascot park track it is possible X would have been close by…does anybody know what hobbies CJB engaged in?..i do like to ponder some theory that CJB brushed off the Z at some local venue..may be even a horse track.but achems razor would say jilted lover so look at the boyfriend…at this point id almost start to tear CJB life apart and see if any clue can be uncovered..tuff call because this case just eats me up

I would think Cheri’s closest Friends might have clues to offer regarding Crushes, Boys, etc

if CJB was known to frequent riverside int’l racetrack, or ascot park track it is possible X would have been close by…does anybody know what hobbies CJB engaged in?..i do like to ponder some theory that CJB brushed off the Z at some local venue..may be even a horse track.but achems razor would say jilted lover so look at the boyfriend…at this point id almost start to tear CJB life apart and see if any clue can be uncovered..tuff call because this case just eats me up

I would think Cheri’s closest Friends might have clues to offer regarding Crushes, Boys, etc

I reached out to her best friend at the time…no reply.

I think less and less of any supposed connection between this case and Z- to me, for a first crime, the Linda Edwards/Dominguez case is a shoe-in. That is a far more in keeping with his MO and someone was seen the day before, shooting at gulls, that matched later descriptions of Z. Cheri Jo Bates is totally different in almost every way.

And the fact that he signed his letters with a Z- think about it. What are the two most succinct letters to sign with? X and Z. And it always sounded so off to me. The tone of the letter, the way it sounded like a literary exercise. Its got none of the tone or hallmarks of later Z letters. And the small shoe size and wristwatch- it could have been a woman, perhaps. But it wasn’t a man who matched Z’s later descriptions. I don’t think he would have committed a super-personal crime with a knife right at the beginning- why didn’t he continue stabbing people? Its one thing to change an M.O. midstream, when you are underway, to change it up. But its another to do a crime like that right off and move on to a gun as your main weapon. I have actually tried to find cases of killers starting off like that and pulling back to a less personal weapon, but its just not the natural progression. In fact it always struck me as funny how nervous Z was at LB. I don’t think stabbing was something he had ever done before. It was a strange one-off that he wanted to try, perhaps, but I think he found it somewhat distasteful. Notice he never really reveled in the blood. He reveled in the press, and the fear. But he never went on and on about mutilations or anything of the kind in his letters.

It seems obvious to me that CJB was personal, and probably a one-off.

Anyone reflect on the disproportionate number of college/university students either possible or confirmed Z victims? Either Z had a thing about college/university students or, as seems more likely, he was himself a college/university student at the time of the attacks.

Anyone reflect on the disproportionate number of college/university students either possible or confirmed Z victims? Either Z had a thing about college/university students or, as seems more likely, he was himself a college/university student at the time of the attacks.

His first 4 victims weren’t though. Cheri Jo aside.

Maybe this isn’t the best place for this, but I think it’s really interesting what Morf said about prints maybe not matching Z’s…Here’s the thing about that, we can assume that they didn’t match Bob’s, right? I mean they had not to have, otherwise I’d say that pretty much closes it. With that in mind I think it leaves wide open the possibilities.

Now IF Bob did kill Cheri, I’m pretty confident in saying that he was not Zodiac.

Maybe this isn’t the best place for this, but I think it’s really interesting what Morf said about prints maybe not matching Z’s…Here’s the thing about that, we can assume that they didn’t match Bob’s, right? I mean they had not to have, otherwise I’d say that pretty much closes it. With that in mind I think it leaves wide open the possibilities.

Now IF Bob did kill Cheri, I’m pretty confident in saying that he was not Zodiac.

If Bob’s prints matched,he would have been arrested, so safe to say,his Prints did not match,and we know his DNA didn’t. I know Sherwood Morrill examined his writing and quickly ruled him out. Additionally, he never lived in the SF Bay area, and was actually living out of the country for a long time. I remember some hearsay that he was suspected in another murder in another Country, but I don’t know if it’s true.