The only reason The Zodiac ran with Cheri Jo, months after the so-called connection was mentioned, is because he needed cachet with The Los Angeles Times after The Chronicle no longer found him front-page worthy.

And Cheri Jo’s life was investigated. If the Riverside police hadn’t managed to connect The Zodiac to her murder in 1969-70, then he either was a stranger to her with respect to the killing, or he didn’t kill her. In either case, he had little to fear from his "connection" to the crime, after murdering five additional people.

I agree, and when you think about it, it wasn’t he who connected himself to Riverside, it was Paul Avery’s articles that brought Zodiac into the Cheri Jo mix, just like it was Kathleen Johns and the Examiner (Modesto Bee, etc.) who brought Zodiac into play.

The only reason The Zodiac ran with Cheri Jo, months after the so-called connection was mentioned, is because he needed cachet with The Los Angeles Times after The Chronicle no longer found him front-page worthy.

And Cheri Jo’s life was investigated. If the Riverside police hadn’t managed to connect The Zodiac to her murder in 1969-70, then he either was a stranger to her with respect to the killing, or he didn’t kill her. In either case, he had little to fear from his "connection" to the crime, after murdering five additional people.

I agree, and when you think about it, it wasn’t he who connected himself to Riverside, it was Paul Avery’s articles that brought Zodiac into the Cheri Jo mix, just like it was Kathleen Johns and the Examiner (Modesto Bee, etc.) who brought Zodiac into play.

This is very true, of course, and The Zodiac never actually said he killed Cheri Jo. In fact, he said "my riverside activity", which is very generic. He could have meant the letters, not the murder. I think if he had killed Cheri, he’d have offered something to authenticate his involvement in the crime. In the case of Johns, The Zodiac at least said he burned the car, but with Riverside, nothing was offered, not even an admission a murder was committed.

All very odd, but in my mind, he simply used what he could to elevate his image and keep his name in the papers. Without any new murders, his role as Bay Area bogeyman was quickly evaporating and his audience was forgetting he ever existed.

This is very true, of course, and The Zodiac never actually said he killed Cheri Jo. In fact, he said "my riverside activity", which is very generic. He could have meant the letters, not the murder. I think if he had killed Cheri, he’d have offered something to authenticate his involvement in the crime. In the case of Johns, The Zodiac at least said he burned the car, but with Riverside, nothing was offered, not even an admission a murder was committed.

Not that I take the word of a serial killer, but when he stated in the same letter that there were "a hell of a lot more down there," I don’t think he was referring to more letters.

start looking at all murders in riverside fro 1965 to 68..something in riverside is there that points to Z..if not why mention it

start looking at all murders in riverside fro 1965 to 68..something in riverside is there that points to Z..if not why mention it

There was an attack on a young woman there that got picked up hitchhiking shortly after Cheri was killed. The man that picked her up made some threat and made reference to Cheri’s case. I don’t remember full details, but there’s a thread on here someplace I think. That Girl got away

start looking at all murders in riverside fro 1965 to 68..something in riverside is there that points to Z..if not why mention it

There was an attack on a young woman there that got picked up hitchhiking shortly after Cheri was killed. The man that picked her up made some threat and made reference to Cheri’s case. I don’t remember full details, but there’s a thread on here someplace I think. That Girl got away

The name of the girl is not known, however the incident appears to have happened on 11-22-66:

A nineteen-year-old University of California at Riverside coed, walking west on Linden, became aware of a car creeping slowly alongside her. Looking around, she observed a man offering her a ride. “No, thanks,” she said. “Well, after all, I’m not Jack the Ripper,” replied the driver. “Don’t you recall? I gave you a ride three weeks ago.” Three weeks ago Cheri Jo had been murdered. The girl smiled, vaguely remembering him, opened the car door, and slid in. The ride went smoothly. He dropped her off at a local pizza parlor. When her boyfriend failed to meet her, she started back toward the UCR library. The same man rolled alongside again and picked her up, but instead of taking her home, drove rapidly up a dark road to Pigeon Pass. “There are a lot of kooks running around,” he said as the car slowed. “You heard about that girl at City College, didn’t you?” Frightened, the girl leaped from the car. Racing along the road’s edge, she fell. “I’m not going to kill you,” he shouted as she scrambled to her feet. “If I wanted to kill you, I could just hit you in the head with this piece of wood.” She returned to the car, but instantly his hands closed around her throat. “Now if I wanted to kill you, I could just snap your neck,” he said. “Shall I kill you now, or are you going to take off your clothes?” As he grabbed her sweatshirt, she wriggled free and bolted into the woods. The stranger gave up searching for her and roared off with her purse and books. Sobbing, covered with scratches and burrs, she staggered to the Highgrove area. When police responded, she described the suspect as “thirty-five, five feet nine inches tall with a chunky, protruding stomach.” Later descriptions of Zodiac mentioned “a slight potbelly” and that his “stomach hung over his trousers.”

QT

start looking at all murders in riverside fro 1965 to 68..something in riverside is there that points to Z..if not why mention it

There was an attack on a young woman there that got picked up hitchhiking shortly after Cheri was killed. The man that picked her up made some threat and made reference to Cheri’s case. I don’t remember full details, but there’s a thread on here someplace I think. That Girl got away

The name of the girl is not known, however the incident appears to have happened on 11-22-66:

A nineteen-year-old University of California at Riverside coed, walking west on Linden, became aware of a car creeping slowly alongside her. Looking around, she observed a man offering her a ride. “No, thanks,” she said. “Well, after all, I’m not Jack the Ripper,” replied the driver. “Don’t you recall? I gave you a ride three weeks ago.” Three weeks ago Cheri Jo had been murdered. The girl smiled, vaguely remembering him, opened the car door, and slid in. The ride went smoothly. He dropped her off at a local pizza parlor. When her boyfriend failed to meet her, she started back toward the UCR library. The same man rolled alongside again and picked her up, but instead of taking her home, drove rapidly up a dark road to Pigeon Pass. “There are a lot of kooks running around,” he said as the car slowed. “You heard about that girl at City College, didn’t you?” Frightened, the girl leaped from the car. Racing along the road’s edge, she fell. “I’m not going to kill you,” he shouted as she scrambled to her feet. “If I wanted to kill you, I could just hit you in the head with this piece of wood.” She returned to the car, but instantly his hands closed around her throat. “Now if I wanted to kill you, I could just snap your neck,” he said. “Shall I kill you now, or are you going to take off your clothes?” As he grabbed her sweatshirt, she wriggled free and bolted into the woods. The stranger gave up searching for her and roared off with her purse and books. Sobbing, covered with scratches and burrs, she staggered to the Highgrove area. When police responded, she described the suspect as “thirty-five, five feet nine inches tall with a chunky, protruding stomach.” Later descriptions of Zodiac mentioned “a slight potbelly” and that his “stomach hung over his trousers.”

QT

Thanks QT,much of this matches the description of Z, and the use of the word, SHALL, matches both Z, and the Bates confession letter.

Found this 4/9/66 Article from the San Bernardino County Sun, and the M.O. sounds similar, but age may be off. It happened in San Bernardino right next to Riverside. I suspect this attacker may be a black male anyhow.

I always think that the word "shall" and the fact that both Z and the Cheri Jo writer used it has been really made too much of. Because I think BOTH were probably quite influenced by the greatest letterwriter-serial killer of all time, Jack the Ripper. He uses the word "shall" throughout. No matter that most of these letters are hoaxes, its their influence that matters. No doubt both writers (or the same writer, if they were one) knew of this and got a jolt from it, and read them many times. That’s where I think the word "shall" comes from.
Think about it- up til that time there were very few (other than the Black Dahlia) incidents of killers writing letters to the police. Jack the Ripper was by far the best known. You can even see the similarities with Z sending in a piece of Stine’s shirt- he wants you to know its him by sending something directly from the victim- just as Jack the Ripper sent in a piece of Catherine Eddowes’ kidney. He was definitely, definitely deeply influenced by Jack the Ripper, in that respect, anyway. I think that is a pretty safe assumption to make.

"Shall" was not the only written similarity. Z also misspelled the word "twitch" in both the confession and 7/26/70 letters. (Also used "squirmed")

To quote the great Mike B:

The author of the Riverside “Confession” wrote, “SHE SQUIRMED AND SHOOK AS I CHOAKED HER, AND HER LIPS TWICHED.” In his letter of July 26, 1970, the Zodiac wrote: “Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm.” Theories regarding a possible link between the Zodiac and Bates crimes did not appear in news reports until three month after the Zodiac had misspelled the same word in the same manner as the author of the “Confession.”

I always think that the word "shall" and the fact that both Z and the Cheri Jo writer used it has been really made too much of. Because I think BOTH were probably quite influenced by the greatest letterwriter-serial killer of all time, Jack the Ripper. He uses the word "shall" throughout

Or, they are possibly one and the same person. You have a taunting letter writer in Riverside that uses the word, ‘shall’ & misspells Twitch/Twich the same way Zodiac does. We have a state writing expert that links the Riverside writing to Zodiac, so why is this so hard to believe that they are one and the same person? Additionally, the confession letter writer mentions that he DID MAKE THAT CALL TO POLICE, yet another similarity to Zodiac. I think it’s clear, Z wrote the Bates letters, at least in my opinion

why is this so hard to believe that they are one and the same person?

because the murders are completely different, he didn’t take credit for it, he only referenced "riverside activity", and the evidence presented to link him to bates is minimal and circumstantial.

in all seriousness, i think there’s enough solid documented information that gets glossed over by the "maybe it is" stuff like the later cards, riverside, lass, etc. if the goal is to catch this guy then i don’t see why lh, brs, and san francisco plus the validated letters aren’t enough. what does riverside get us other than maybe, if it is him, he has a connection to riverside? maybe he knew bates? maybe he wore the watch that obviously has no forensic info on it? people have been chasing riverside for forty years and it hasn’t turned up anything. i think pulling back to look at the irrefutable facts is the way to go but i understand that i’m in the minority. just my 2 cents.

why is this so hard to believe that they are one and the same person?

because the murders are completely different, he didn’t take credit for it, he only referenced "riverside activity", and the evidence presented to link him to bates is minimal and circumstantial.

Again,it’s totally possible that Z only wrote the Bates letters, and did not kill her.

why is this so hard to believe that they are one and the same person?

because the murders are completely different, he didn’t take credit for it, he only referenced "riverside activity", and the evidence presented to link him to bates is minimal and circumstantial.

Again,it’s totally possible that Z only wrote the Bates letters, and did not kill her.

As much as I doubt alot of the profiling orthodoxy, I think that it does tend to underline some general truths, and I find it really, really hard to believe that Z would stab someone in this way, then go on to shoot people. That is counterintuitive in about every way imaginable. Maybe CONTINUE stabbing, but it does seem to be a normal trajectory where someone who gets that up close and personal with someone is going to continue being up close and getting more personal. An escalation in terms of mutilations, rape, etc. And you see none of that in his later crimes.

Again, the desktop- garbage. I think it has sweet f.a. to do with the Bates killing. Red dress. Nothing. Means NOTHING.
The letter COULD have been written by Z, that I can’t really discount with a hundred-percent confidence. But not because of the word "shall" its not like he used a word like "penny farthing" that no one uses anymore. I write shall all the time. Its not that unusual. I don’t think the letter writer had anything to do with the murder, really, simply because he calls her "Bates". If you hate someone enough to kill them, because they spurned you, you aren’t gonna call her Bates.

What I don’t understand is why, on the basis of a letter, people keep going over and over and over the Bates murder whereas the Linda Edwards/Domingos murder in Ventura is far, far, FAR more likely to be Z simply on the basis of methodology. Anyone can write a letter- but he tied these victims up with rope he brought with him, they were a young couple, he ties them up then shoots them after they get loose. Its just TOO eerily like LB to be discounted. It fits far better with his overall MO. Someone mentioned that LOTS of kids got shot on beaches in those days- and I have found no evidence of this. Young girls getting stabbed by their boyfriends is FAR more common in general than a shooting on a beach in 1963. There is nothing too strange in the Bates killing- seems like a crime of passion, really. Apart from the letter, we probably wouldn’t be talking about it in conjunction with Z at all.

"As much as I doubt alot of the profiling orthodoxy, I think that it does tend to underline some general truths, and I find it really, really hard to believe that Z would stab someone in this way, then go on to shoot people."
Well,then let’s put it in reverse, Z, who was a shooter of kids on Lover’s lanes went on to stab people,one could say it’s hard to believe he would shoot people then move onto stab them-you can’t have it both ways!

"Again, the desktop- garbage. I think it has sweet f.a. to do with the Bates killing. Red dress. Nothing. Means NOTHING.
The letter COULD have been written by Z, that I can’t really discount with a hundred-percent confidence."
The red dress wouldn’t have anything to do with the Bates murder, you’re right, but again, the grand point I am making, the Author didn’t write that poem about Bates, it was simply a lucky coincidence that it was found and connected to the letters and the Z case,but then again, the fact it was found in the RCC Library storage area, and Bates was there the night she died is awfully coincidental.

"But not because of the word "shall" its not like he used a word like "penny farthing" that no one uses anymore"
Totally disagree, you are by far in the minority is using the word ‘shall’. Most people that use that word are writing a book, or some kind of legal language for contracts, property,etc.As seen here-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall_and_will

"What I don’t understand is why, on the basis of a letter, people keep going over and over and over the Bates murder whereas the Linda Edwards/Domingos murder in Ventura is far, far, FAR more likely to be Z simply on the basis of methodology. Anyone can write a letter- but he tied these victims up with rope he brought with him, they were a young couple, he ties them up then shoots them after they get loose. Its just TOO eerily like LB to be discounted. It fits far better with his overall MO. Someone mentioned that LOTS of kids got shot on beaches in those days- and I have found no evidence of this. Young girls getting stabbed by their boyfriends is FAR more common in general than a shooting on a beach in 1963. There is nothing too strange in the Bates killing- seems like a crime of passion, really. Apart from the letter, we probably wouldn’t be talking about it in conjunction with Z at all"

The Domingos/Edwards attack contained no letters or calls afterwards, so how is this the most like Z? The Bates case DOES contain letters, and according to the writer of the confession letter, a phonecall as well. That IS more like Z. Additionally, how many of Zodiac’s attacks happened on a beach? Just one, as opposed to three in or around cars, and that too is closer to the Bates case in which she was attacked near her car after her killer disabled it.