The poem also refers to things that aren’t related to the CJB murder, for example "red dress".

Which tends to make one think the poem wasn’t written after CJB’s death

The simplest explanation is as mentioned here;
http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/cjb/359.html
that Roland Lin Taft carved ‘R.H.’ into the desk, as a sardonic dig at
‘R.H. Bradshaw’, the President of RCC at that time, (as listed in the RCC yearbook);
https://www.rcc.edu/departments/Documents/1965-66%20RCCD%20Catalog.pdf

Possibly after he carried out the stabbing, knowing that the police would be
looking for him, he removed himself to the RCC library and possibly hid
in the storeroom where the desks were stored, for a while at least.

You’d think people in CA that have been mulling over Zodiac for a handful of years,
would have talked to, by now, the lady who Roland Lin Taft stabbed, to ask, e.g.
‘When you were stabbed in 1965 by Taft, do you recall what colour clothing you
were wearing at that time?" (Of course, sugarcoating the question with whatever
appropriate lead-in you can devise, but note- such a question should be asked in
a non-leading manner).

Or, more likely, the poem on the desk has absolutely no connection to the Bates murder in any way, shape, or form.

Chaucer: as an advocate of Occam’s Razor I find it significant that the poem was found in or about the RCC library, beside which Ms. Bates was murdered, and the poem discovered a few months afterward. Clearly, the "poet" had severe mental issues which leads one to suspect he had a homicidal personality. Surely it is too much to presume that this gory poem, and Bates’ death are happenstance events.

Chaucer: as an advocate of Occam’s Razor I find it significant that the poem was found in or about the RCC library, beside which Ms. Bates was murdered, and the poem discovered a few months afterward. Clearly, the "poet" had severe mental issues which leads one to suspect he had a homicidal personality. Surely it is too much to presume that this gory poem, and Bates’ death are happenstance events.

The poem was found after the murder in a storage room, etched on to the bottom of a desk. There’s no telling when it was written because there’s no telling how long it was in storage.

Clearly, the "poet" had severe mental issues

What makes you say this? This isn’t "clear" at all. I teach college students and if I assumed that everyone one that turned in a dark, macabre, emotionally wrought poem was mentally ill, then my class would be filled with psychopath. You absolutely cannot determine anyone’s state of mind or mental illness from a poem etched on a desk.

which leads one to suspect he had a homicidal personality.

Again, A =/= B

You can’t make this kind of sweeping judgement. It’s a massive logical fallacy.

Surely it is too much to presume that this gory poem, and Bates’ death are happenstance events

Again, high school and college students write gory, macabre, dark things all the time. I know because I read them. The fact is that NO credible, physical evidence links the CJB murder to the poem.

Chaucer: Agreed, I can’t 100% prove the desktop poem was written by CJB’s killer. Conversely, you can’t 100% disprove the desktop poem was written by him. You gots your opinion, and I gots mine. Suits me!

I think the main point here is that supposedly Sherwood Morrill was certain that Zodiac wrote the desktop poem, If true
then odds are Z murdered CJB.

I think the main point here is that supposedly Sherwood Morrill was certain that Zodiac wrote the desktop poem, If true
then odds are Z murdered CJB.

i know a lot of people latch onto morrill’s opinion, but he was wrong on occasion as well. while i wouldn’t call handwriting analysis pseudoscience, it certainly lives in the same neighborhood.

I think the main point here is that supposedly Sherwood Morrill was certain that Zodiac wrote the desktop poem, If true
then odds are Z murdered CJB.

i know a lot of people latch onto morrill’s opinion, but he was wrong on occasion as well. while i wouldn’t call handwriting analysis pseudoscience, it certainly lives in the same neighborhood.

People think lie detectors are a legitimate science too, and they are complete pseudoscience. Handwriting analysis is similar.

Frankly, I look at the poem and the CJB letters, and I don’t see any similarity between them, nor do I see any similarity between them and the Zodiac letters.

The inset words are from Zodiac letters.

Frankly, I look at the poem and the CJB letters, and I don’t see any similarity between them, nor do I see any similarity between them and the Zodiac letters.

agreed. i’m not a handwriting expert but i would expect part of the criteria for comparing two samples is knowing the media used to make the writing (pen, pencil, knife) and the surface on which the writing was made (paper, desk, side of a car). i would also expect that a writing sample from someone writing with a pen on paper would look somewhat dissimilar to that same person writing with a marker on the side of a car or underside of a desk. i think a layman can look at two samples and see similarities where they exist, the "expert" would hopefully see non-obvious subtleties that either ties two samples to the same writer or differentiates the writing enough to be fairly certain the same writer didn’t create both.

in the case of the zodiac i can give it to morrill to compare two lengthy letters both written with similar marker pens on similar paper where the writing has the same exaggerated characteristics. with the bates poem it’s obvious to a non-expert that the writer had difficulty writing with his normal penmanship. you can see where letters were redrawn, the left margin gradually moves further to the left as if the writer has his wrist at an awkward angle, the individual letters slant that way as well, etc. additionally there aren’t a lot of letter characters to work with. the poem is only approximately fifty words long. anyone who says they can definitively make a conclusion about the poem and another writing sample is definitely wading knee-deep in the pseudoscience part of handwriting analysis.

Frankly, I look at the poem and the CJB letters, and I don’t see any similarity between them, nor do I see any similarity between them and the Zodiac letters.

agreed. i’m not a handwriting expert but i would expect part of the criteria for comparing two samples is knowing the media used to make the writing (pen, pencil, knife) and the surface on which the writing was made (paper, desk, side of a car). i would also expect that a writing sample from someone writing with a pen on paper would look somewhat dissimilar to that same person writing with a marker on the side of a car or underside of a desk. i think a layman can look at two samples and see similarities where they exist, the "expert" would hopefully see non-obvious subtleties that either ties two samples to the same writer or differentiates the writing enough to be fairly certain the same writer didn’t create both.

in the case of the zodiac i can give it to morrill to compare two lengthy letters both written with similar marker pens on similar paper where the writing has the same exaggerated characteristics. with the bates poem it’s obvious to a non-expert that the writer had difficulty writing with his normal penmanship. you can see where letters were redrawn, the left margin gradually moves further to the left as if the writer has his wrist at an awkward angle, the individual letters slant that way as well, etc. additionally there aren’t a lot of letter characters to work with. the poem is only approximately fifty words long. anyone who says they can definitively make a conclusion about the poem and another writing sample is definitely wading knee-deep in the pseudoscience part of handwriting analysis.

I think this is accurate.

If you want there to be a connection or a similarity, you can find bits and pieces that fit, but if you look at it objectively without an agenda, I think it’s hard to conclude that there’s a connection.

As I’ve pointed out before, even Zodiac said that the Lake Herman murders were his first:

"To prove that I am the Zodiac, Ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gun sight
which I used to start my collecting of slaves."

—November 9th, 1969 letter

He did not claim credit for the Riverside murder until March 1971 – four months after Paul Avery published his article about the CJB connection:

"I do have to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones, there are a hell of a lot more down there."

—March 13, 1971

Can we really say that a bragadocious narcissist like Zodiac wouldn’t brag about more murders? The best conclusion I would draw is that when Avery found some similarity between the two cases, Zodiac was only more than happy to take credit for them – even though he had only begun his murder spree at Lake Herman as he stated.

Sorry that the clarity of the above photo isn’t very good, this message board only allows 256k to be uploaded.

I think Morf uploaded the above desktop poem comparison and there are a few others as well, maybe Morf or one
of the mods can reupload the photos with better clarity ?

Sorry that the clarity of the above photo isn’t very good, this message board only allows 256k to be uploaded.

I think Morf uploaded the above desktop poem comparison and there are a few others as well, maybe Morf or one
of the mods can reupload the photos with better clarity ?

Here’s the link to Morf’s post that includes that comp and others. It’s at the start of this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=18#p26