The Desk Poem is one of those topics that fall into the "agree to disagree" category, IMO, and I apologize for not reminding myself of that before spouting off in the "RH Suspects" thread. Zodiac penning the desk poem is an obvious assumption for that thread so it was stupid to challenge that there.

I can definitely understand why the handwriting was/is thought to match Zodiac’s, especially after reading Traveller’s good analysis on it. Handwriting has never really been the issue for me other than concerns about comparing handwriting from a wooden desk. I also do believe that the Bates and Confession letters likely came from Zodiac so this doesn’t really change much for me regarding the Riverside connection. It is the tone and message of the poem along with what I view as a total lack of connection to the CJB case that far outweigh the handwriting similarities for me so my opinion remains unchanged.

I’ll be a little lazy and just give a link to a previous post that pretty much summarizes my thoughts. It’s a pretty good discussion from what I remember and Mike Kelleher offers his completely opposite impressions later in the thread.

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … =46&t=1334

If you disagree, I agree to disagree with you.

FWIW, I thought I would share Mike Kelleher’s response about the Desk Poem in the above thread on the ZKfacts forum. I obviously disagree with the basic premise but it’s interesting to see what he is able to draw out of such a short sample:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … =46&t=1334

Edited to remove post and add link…

Hmm, sounds a lot like Ross Sullivan

Ya know… I honestly didn’t notice Mike’s request there not to post this anywhere else so I think I’m going to delete it out of respect to him. I think he is just saying that he is offering impressions rather than any official analysis but my apologies for missing that request. I’ll leave it up briefly for anyone to read here and then delete.

I honestly have no idea how Mike is able to draw all of that out of a 45 word poem on the bottom of a desk but I thought it was worth reading, especially since it contradicts my impressions of the Desktop poem.

Maybe just leave a link to it Entropy?

Agreed, morf. Done…

FWIW, I thought I would share Mike Kelleher’s response about the Desk Poem in the above thread on the ZKfacts forum. I obviously disagree with the basic premise but it’s interesting to see what he is able to draw out of such a short sample:

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/ … =46&t=1334

Edited to remove post and add link…

It’s a very interesting analysis. I don’t quite buy it, though. One could argue that he mistakes bad poetry for sociopathic traits…What he identifies as the latter could just as easily be described as literary shortcomings: there is something generic about the poem, an amateur’s attempt at writing something "dark" and "desperate", following a certain recipe if you will. The lack of emotion, as he sees it, is rather a lack of ability to go beyond the sheer convention of the thing.

To me it doesn’t read like a suicide note – nor a murderer’s confession (or fantasy). It reads like an amateurish poem about suicide. The lack of personal anguish is down to the fact that it isn’t actually personal – it’s a mediocre effort at writing a "personal" poem. It could’ve been written by anyone at any time – but my guess would definitely NOT be that it was written by a man (25-35 yrs old) with homicidal tendencies.

The problem is that a certain hand writing expert was certain it was written by the Zodiac killer. And that has to count for something, I guess.

It’s a very interesting analysis. I don’t quite buy it, though. One could argue that he mistakes bad poetry for sociopathic traits…What he identifies as the latter could just as easily be described as literary shortcomings: there is something generic about the poem, an amateur’s attempt at writing something "dark" and "desperate", following a certain recipe if you will. The lack of emotion, as he sees it, is rather a lack of ability to go beyond the sheer convention of the thing.

To me it doesn’t read like a suicide note – nor a murderer’s confession (or fantasy). It reads like an amateurish poem about suicide. The lack of personal anguish is down to the fact that it isn’t actually personal – it’s a mediocre effort at writing a "personal" poem. It could’ve been written by anyone at any time – but my guess would definitely NOT be that it was written by a man (25-35 yrs old) with homicidal tendencies.

The problem is that a certain hand writing expert was certain it was written by the Zodiac killer. And that has to count for something, I guess.

I agree with all of that, Norse, and I said in that thread that I view it as more of a desperate expression of emotion like one might find in a diary than an actual suicide note. The distanced 3rd person referencing to the writer’s self seems entirely consistent with a depressed, suicidal young person, IMHO. To me, it’s an expression of desperation just like the self-mutilation it describes and wasn’t intended as a message to anyone. Diaries and bottoms of desks are places that people write when they don’t want other people to know their thoughts feelings.

My strictly amateur view on it…..

The writer, a male, is fixating on a girl. The girl, he is fantasizing about, but NOT in a sexual way. He is fantasizing about what it would be like to kill her. Maybe he has already thought about killing her, but didnt have the nerve to do it, but maybe ‘next time’ he will.

I think that Sherwood Morrill was 100% correct. This poem was authored by a younger, male, Zodiac, whilst he was in the RCC campus. I think this dark twisted poetry, was a sign of things to come in his future.

I wonder if this poem was ever discussed with any teachers to get a feeling if one might have known who could have written it.

My strictly amateur view on it…..

The writer, a male, is fixating on a girl. The girl, he is fantasizing about, but NOT in a sexual way. He is fantasizing about what it would be like to kill her. Maybe he has already thought about killing her, but didnt have the nerve to do it, but maybe ‘next time’ he will.

I think that Sherwood Morrill was 100% correct. This poem was authored by a younger, male, Zodiac, whilst he was in the RCC campus. I think this dark twisted poetry, was a sign of things to come in his future.

I respect your opinion, morf. I’m curious though how you interpret two aspects of the poem from this perspective. I’m not trying to debate the point, just to better understand it from your perspective and those who share the opinion. I do think the Desk poem is important in one aspect. If Zodiac wrote it, it would certainly solidify his connection to Cheri Jo Bates and Riverside and make it far more likely, IMO, that he actually killed Cheri Jo.

– What does the title "Sick of living/Unwilling to die" refer to? Is this referring to the writer’s potential victim or himself?

– What does "clean" refer to? Is it perhaps referring to cutting cleanly or of cleaning up the blood that is spilled from cutting?

In reading through this thread, I think these images from Tahoe’s excellent post seem to answer the question about the type of desk that the poem was written on. It definitely seems to be one of those horribly uncomfortable "flip top" desks in which the writing surface flips down in front of the student when they sit in the chair. Yes, it’s from a movie but Fincher apparently had unprecedented access to original evidence and is a real stickler for realism. If the representation is accurate and the poem was indeed written on the bottom of the writing surface, it would have had to be a left-handed desk, no? Perhaps that’s reading too much into a movie prop but, as pictured, it would represent either the top of a right-handed desk or the bottom of a left-handed desk.

Perhaps that’s reading too much into a movie prop but, as pictured, it would represent either the top of a right-handed desk or the bottom of a left-handed desk.

Just an FYI:

The poem was written on the underside of the desk. I can’t remember where I read that but sure it said it in one of the reports.
Don’t know if that changes anything, but found it interesting.

Perhaps that’s reading too much into a movie prop but, as pictured, it would represent either the top of a right-handed desk or the bottom of a left-handed desk.

Just an FYI:

The poem was written on the underside of the desk. I can’t remember where I read that but sure it said it in one of the reports.
Don’t know if that changes anything, but found it interesting.

You’re correct, Paul, so if that picture from the movie is an accurate representation, it would represent the bottom of a left-handed flip desk. It would be interesting to know since everything else seems to indicate that Z was right-handed but we don’t know if this is a completely accurate representation and there is also no guarantee that the author was sitting at the desk when it was written.

The odd thing is that Zodiac wrote the poem in his natural style and then wrote the Bates letters with altered writing. If he was worried about his writing being identified, why did then revert back to the natural style for his Z letters? I wonder if he knew that the poem had been discovered. I know that the knowledge of the poem was made available to the public before the "Zodiac riverside connection", but I don’t know if it was known before the Bates letters were sent.

The odd thing is that Zodiac wrote the poem in his natural style and then wrote the Bates letters with altered writing. If he was worried about his writing being identified, why did then revert back to the natural style for his Z letters? I wonder if he knew that the poem had been discovered. I know that the knowledge of the poem was made available to the public before the "Zodiac riverside connection", but I don’t know if it was known before the Bates letters were sent.

I don’t think zodiac wrote the poem intending for it to be found, so no need to disguise his writing, the letters on the other hand are a different story