Sorry, Morf.

THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" were, in order, typed, and printed with the off-hand to avoid comparison with incriminating printed communications. Since written communications are almost always just that–written–it suggests that comparison with the RCC desktop "poem", with its distinctive printing, was to be avoided. Nor did it matter whether THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" communications were typed/printed before or after the "poem" was discovered.

THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" were, in order, typed, and printed with the off-hand to avoid comparison with incriminating printed communications. Since written communications are almost always just that–written–it suggests that comparison with the RCC desktop "poem", with its distinctive printing, was to be avoided. Nor did it matter whether THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" communications were typed/printed before or after the "poem" was discovered.

If I was Z, and a student at the same school as Cheri, I would be just as concerned about a teacher recognizing my "real" handwriting from classwork I had submitted, and other writings, than I would be about one particular poem that hadn’t been discovered yet. For all we know, Z may have even signed one of Cheri’s yearbooks, or those of her friends.

Which makes me wonder if that might be a way to stumble upon samples of some of these various POI’s handwriting – from the yearbooks of classmates…..

And another thought. Since Z was connected to the library, and the poem wasn’t discovered until well after the murder, if Z was so concerned about it, couldn’t he have removed or destroyed it before it was found?

Good thinking, Marshall. Several excellent points there.

The desktop is problematic – in many ways.

In my opinion it’s not a reference to Bates – and it’s not necessarily "sick" either.

If Z wrote it, he did so as a regular student. That’s my take.

Problem? Well, the main problem is that if Z was a regular student who knew CJB it’s damn near unfathomable that they didn’t catch him. They focused their investigation on the college and the library. It was a major investigation too – lots of resources, manpower, etc.

Later on, the SFPD entertained the notion that Z killed Bates – and they were certain that he wrote the poem (Morrill said he did, and the official stance of the department was that he was right). They didn’t come up with anything either. Z is right there – as someone who is tangibly linked to the library in one way or another, and they fail to identify him.

It’s hard to believe.

THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" were, in order, typed, and printed with the off-hand to avoid comparison with incriminating printed communications. Since written communications are almost always just that–written–it suggests that comparison with the RCC desktop "poem", with its distinctive printing, was to be avoided. Nor did it matter whether THE CONFESSION and "BATES HAD TO DIE" communications were typed/printed before or after the "poem" was discovered.

If I was Z, and a student at the same school as Cheri, I would be just as concerned about a teacher recognizing my "real" handwriting from classwork I had submitted, and other writings, than I would be about one particular poem that hadn’t been discovered yet. For all we know, Z may have even signed one of Cheri’s yearbooks, or those of her friends.

Which makes me wonder if that might be a way to stumble upon samples of some of these various POI’s handwriting – from the yearbooks of classmates…..

And another thought. Since Z was connected to the library, and the poem wasn’t discovered until well after the murder, if Z was so concerned about it, couldn’t he have removed or destroyed it before it was found?

It’s possible he had written it before Bates was killed, and before he sent letters in her case, and simply forgotten about it, or never expected it would be found and linked to him, therefore, that could be why he didn’t remove it

The RCC desk on which the "poem" was written seems to have had a rather ambulatory history. I’ve read it was found in an Art classroom. Also, that it was discovered in a library storage room. It’s possible that the "poet" looked for his opus, and wasn’t able to find it.
Your idea about exhuming class papers and scrutinizing their handwriting is excellent, Marshall. Question is, are any left to be examined? And, did RCC publish yearbooks? If so, they might provide samples of handwriting.

Your idea about exhuming class papers and scrutinizing their handwriting is excellent, Marshall. Question is, are any left to be examined? And, did RCC publish yearbooks? If so, they might provide samples of handwriting.

Thanks, but I was suggesting the writer of the Bates letters was disguising his handwriting because at that time there were probably dozens of exemplars of his writing, and a bunch of teachers and maybe friends who might recognize his writing. I can’t think of where there might be a treasure trove of his writing now, all these years later, although we know he did a lot of writing…

And by the way, if we’re looking for someone who studied the art of disguising handwriting at RCC… that very short list would include Ross.

As far as getting hard evidence regarding Ross, I still think comparing the ink/paint he was using to mark library materials to the Halloween card is the best and simplest. If it’s a match, and if that kind of ink/paint was pretty much exclusive to library use, that would make Z someone who worked in a library and used that type of stylus. Who else would have access to that type of pen? Who else would even think of using that type of pen?

Out would go just about all of the major POI,s leaving Ross pretty much the only guy left.

When I first saw the Halloween card, I figured it was typewriter "whiteout," also known as "liquid paper" or "correction fluid." That was very common around that time for everyone who had a typewriter, and Z had access to a typewriter. Ross may have been the one POI we’re aware of who could’ve had a better option readily available to him, and with luck, maybe it’s a distinctive (rare) type of product.

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Your idea about exhuming class papers and scrutinizing their handwriting is excellent, Marshall. Question is, are any left to be examined? And, did RCC publish yearbooks? If so, they might provide samples of handwriting.

Thanks, but I was suggesting the writer of the Bates letters was disguising his handwriting because at that time there were probably dozens of exemplars of his writing, and a bunch of teachers and maybe friends who might recognize his writing. I can’t think of where there might be a treasure trove of his writing now, all these years later, although we know he did a lot of writing…

And by the way, if we’re looking for someone who studied the art of disguising handwriting at RCC… that very short list would include Ross.

As far as getting hard evidence regarding Ross, I still think comparing the ink/paint he was using to mark library materials to the Halloween card is the best and simplest. If it’s a match, and if that kind of ink/paint was pretty much exclusive to library use, that would make Z someone who worked in a library and used that type of stylus. Who else would have access to that type of pen? Who else would even think of using that type of pen?

Out would go just about all of the major POI,s leaving Ross pretty much the only guy left.

When I first saw the Halloween card, I figured it was typewriter "whiteout," also known as "liquid paper" or "correction fluid." That was very common around that time for everyone who had a typewriter, and Z had access to a typewriter. Ross may have been the one POI we’re aware of who could’ve had a better option readily available to him, and with luck, maybe it’s a distinctive (rare) type of product.

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Marshall, I like the idea too of the ink/paint in the RCC library possibly matching up with the HC, as I’ve mentioned in other posts. Finding traces of this ink/paint on books in the library might be a longshot since its been so long — I think another member here was planning to make some regular trips there. Curious to know if that has been looked into.

Marshall, I like the idea too of the ink/paint in the RCC library possibly matching up with the HC, as I’ve mentioned in other posts. Finding traces of this ink/paint on books in the library might be a longshot since its been so long — I think another member here was planning to make some regular trips there. Curious to know if that has been looked into.

That was PinkPhantom. I actually did have a private message conversation with her about it a few weeks ago. She hasn’t posted anything on here for awhile though, so I don’t know if she’s still around. I hope so, because she was a member who was actually able and willing to do legwork at the RCC library. She had a lot of energy and dedication so I hope she’s still checking in regularly and reading all this.

I’m in Minnesota so about all I can contribute is ideas…

I don’t think it would be that tough to find materials that came into the RCC library at the time Ross was working there. Books published at that time, or magazine issues dated from then, for instance. But here’s the thing. Library ink/paint wouldn’t have to be specific to RCC – that product probably was manufactured for many libraries. What I’m really suggesting is this: Is the white ink/paint on the Halloween card the same stuff as libraries were using to mark their materials at that time?

I’ll bet a LE crime lab could determine that pretty easily, because they work with inks all the time. Just analyzing the Halloween card ink, they could probably tell what kind of ink it was, when that formulation was commonly used, maybe the manufacturer, and so on. Ink analysis, from what I understand, is a very basic type of test that LE crime labs do, and they really know that stuff backwards and forwards.

It would be best to compare the HC to materials from the RCC library specifically, but I don’t think it would be absolutely necessary. Assuming the RCC library was using a standard product made and used by other schools in CA, any contemporary sample from a nearby library might suffice.

That Stylis ink Ross used may be of interest. I’m curious if police ever determined the exact kind of paint on the Halloween card?

That Stylis ink Ross used may be of interest. I’m curious if police ever determined the exact kind of paint on the Halloween card?

Morf, a while ago, there was a LE guy who was assigned to the Z case. It was decided, rightly so, obviously, that we would not bombard the guy with requests, but instead, run things through you (and that you weren’t going to bombard him, either, since he’s only working on the Z case back-burner, while focusing on catching criminals who are presenting a current threat to society.)

Is this something you’d be willing to request of him? I am not familiar with how police work is done, but I am hoping all it would take would be for you to present to him a succinct summarization why that analysis is worth doing (it potentially could basically solve the case.) Hopefully, on his end, all he’d need to do is get the lab work authorized and have the crime lab guys do their thing, which for them is probably pretty routine.

I fully understand LE’s reluctance to spend resources on time-consuming things like investigating new POIs, digging through old reports, listening to new theories, answering endless questions and so on. We wouldn’t be asking for much – just some basic lab analysis of evidence they already have. And the potential would be not just interesting… it could basically identify Z.

If Ross and his job at the RCC library, using white ink/paint wasn’t on the LE radar back then, I would think they’d have had no reason to test it back in the day………

My understanding of Detective Poyser’s roll in the Zodiac case is that he can only address the things that are related to Vallejo, in other words the BRS case and the letter sent to the Vallejo Times Herald. He is only privy to what the other jurisdictions have in a general sense. The Halloween Card and in fact most of the letters were sent to San Francisco. Vallejo does not have that Halloween Card to be able to send it out for further analysis. The LHR case was investigated by the Solano County Sheriff’s Department, not Vallejo PD, so that case does not fall under his jurisdiction. Det. Poyser cannot tell the other jurisdictions what to do either.

Det. Poyser cannot tell the other jurisdictions what to do either.

So, it’s a dead end?

I understand all these various LE agencies have their own turf, but isn’t there somebody, somewhere, who might see the value in performing this lab test?

I get it that Det. Poyser can’t "tell the other jurisdictions what to do," but does he know someone whom he could have a very cordial, civil, succinct, conversation with, that might include a gentle request? If the Z case could be cracked wide open, it would allow ALL jurisdictions to finally close it and be done with it. Isn’t this in everyones’ best interests, especially the LE guys who are tired of hearing about it? Not to mention the families of the victims of course… Hopefully they have not been forgotten.

Marshall, I totally understand what you are saying. This is a cold case though and as such it’s not going to get the attention or funding that a more recent case would get. Vallejo is cash strapped, they barely have the funds to cover the recent cases and fully staff the department. The same is true of other departments.

Marshall, I totally understand what you are saying. This is a cold case though and as such it’s not going to get the attention or funding that a more recent case would get. Vallejo is cash strapped, they barely have the funds to cover the recent cases and fully staff the department. The same is true of other departments.

I understand that. As far as time and cost, this would be about as minimal as a request could possibly be. We’re not talking about sequencing DNA or even comparing a fingerprint – it’s simpler than that. If time and cost would be prohibitive, in the eyes of LE, then either:

1. This idea doesn’t have as much merit as I think it does.
2. We can hope for basically nothing from LE.

Seriously, I’ll put up the first $200 to have that ink/paint analyzed. Of course it’s a longshot – but how much new hard evidence is likely to come to light in this case, at this point? Everything’s pretty much a long shot. But if we got lucky, imagine the cost savings to LE, across all jurisdictions, to be able to close it all down, finally, and let Det. Poyser focus on more urgent cases exclusively.

People have mused that maybe the answer to Z’s identity is right under our noses. Well, maybe it is. But since the people on this forum don’t have possession of the evidence, we’re either going to need a little effort by the people who are supposed to be interested in solving murders, or we’re really basically just spinning our wheels.

Or, as I said, maybe it isn’t such a hot idea to begin with. It’s just the best I can come up with, and I firmly believe, hard tangible evidence is what’s required – all the theories on Z’s psychology, motives, and so on are interesting but prove nothing.