Zodiac Discussion Forum

Confession Letter v…
 
Notifications
Clear all

Confession Letter vs Zodiac

31 Posts
11 Users
0 Likes
12 K Views
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

The other day on the radio show, Michelle the host brought up something interesting in regards to the differences between Zodiac’s letters,and the Bates case letters. But I think there are far more similarities in the writings than there are differences, especially concerning the Confession letter. Here’s a list of what I and others have noted(some of what follows was found on the net and written by others)

Confession letter writing vs Zodiac letter writing>

From the Bates ‘confession’ letter:
“SHE SQUIRMED AND SHOOK AS I CHOAKED HER, AND HER LIPS TWICHED
From Zodiac’s 7/26/70 letter:
“Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm
Both writers misspell TWITCH the same way as TWICH. And what are the chances of the confession writer using BOTH twitch & Squirm in the same letter, and Zodiac using the same two words in a single line?

Another oddity I noticed in the Confession Letter is the writer’s improperly beginning sentences with the conjunctions "BUT" and "OR":

"But she is battered and dead."

"Or maybe she will be the shapely blue eyed brownett…"

"But I shall cut off her female parts…"

But maybe it will not be either”

Compare to Zodiac’s writing:
Zodiac’s Belli Letter: "But if I hold back too long…"

My Name Is Letter: "But there is more glory in killing a cop than a cid…"

Zodiac’s Button Letter: "But now school is out for the summer…"

Zodiac’s Little List Letter: "Or any type of (Zodiac) buttons that you can think up."

MORE:
Zodiac’s uses the word ‘SO’ to explain what he is going to do, or what he is thinking:
"So I shall change the way the collecting slaves."

"So as you see the police don’t have much to work on."

"So I now have a little list…"

The confession letter writer writes-
So don’t make it to easy for me”

Zodiac used the word ‘SHALL’ about two dozen times if memory serves in his letters. That is a word not often used by people in American English. The Bates confession letter writer also uses that word.

The confession letter writer wrote:
“She squirmed and shook as I choaked her”
And again, the Zodiac wrote:
“Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm”

Thoughts,theories,opinions??? Thanks

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : May 10, 2013 9:25 pm
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

Don’t forget chickens and eggs. The Confession was published in the papers long before Z wrote his letters, so if Z was so influenced by the case he could have simply paid homage to that case by copying the writing style. "Squirm and twich" were already in the public record. In general, anything that was in the Confession letter was known by the public by 1969.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 1:56 am
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
Member Moderator
 

Hi-

Don’t forget chickens and eggs. The Confession was published in the papers long before Z wrote his letters, so if Z was so influenced by the case he could have simply paid homage to that case by copying the writing style. "Squirm and twich" were already in the public record. In general, anything that was in the Confession letter was known by the public by 1969.

Mike

Doesn’t that seem a little unlikely though? I mean if we assume that the purpose of the use of the same language was just a homage it’s a pretty vague one, isn’t it? To bury it in a rambling letter largely about the Mikado nearly 5 years later and then to admit to a connection in 1971. If this was the case would Zodiac let that slide, wouldn’t he have jumped on the opportunity to berate the authorities over the missed clue? Maybe, maybe not but it still seems a little too involved and complicated if it was a homage, for him to never mention it. Point is if it was a homage then it would have carried meaning and a purpose so if we believe that the purpose was to attach himself to a crime that he didn’t commit then were looking at one complicated and sneaky cookie.

Insert yourself at the time of the crime by writing letters that on the surface look nothing like your later letters, laugh as they find a poem on a desk that you may or may not have written, use the confession letter in the crime as a template to the language you use in your confirmed letters nearly 5 years later then when the authorities finally make a connection, you claim it in writing over 5 years later.

It’s not impossible but was Zodiac that guy, was he that complicated, playing a very long game through letters? As I just said, not impossible but could any of us have dreamed that up and relied on blind luck as to the Riverside connection ever being mentioned. Just seems like too big an ask.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 5:53 am
(@mike_r)
Posts: 838
Prominent Member
 

Hi-

Even if it is not an overt homage to the Confession author, I think that whatever was in the public record before the Z case took place that suddenly shows up in his letters has to be looked at with a jaded eye. Maybe he saw the word "twiched" in the Confession, so it was in his subconscious and came out when he wrote out his own letter.

Certainly, the content of the Z letters seem to indicate a much different author from that of the Confession author.

Just IMHO.

Mike

Mike Rodelli

Author, The Hunt for Zodiac; 3.9 stars on Amazon and
In The Shadow of Mt. Diablo: The Shocking True Identity of the Zodiac Killer, a second edition in print format. 4.3 Amazon stars and great Editorial reviews. Twitter:@mikerodelli

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 6:16 am
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
Member Moderator
 

Yup good point. It may have been in his thinking. I just think it worked out a little too well. I mean it’s not like the "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a 38" comment, that didn’t go anywhere beyond the speculation about Officer Radeditch (did I spell that right? sorry if I didn’t).

I’m just trying to work out or at least imagine purpose in this instance. Of course he doesn’t make that easy, there’s probably enough BS weaved in there just to confuse things but this whole Riverside thing is quite recurring. I mean it’s not like he could go back in time and plant evidence.


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 6:34 am
duckking2001
(@duckking2001)
Posts: 628
Honorable Member
 

Good spot with the "twich", never noticed that before.

The misspelling of brunette as "brownett" is very Z in his poetic/dyslexic way of spelling things. A true misspell should be phonetic, but to sound it out doesn’t even sound like the real word.

A brunette has brown hair, so she’s a "brownett." That feels like his little word games to me.

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 12:05 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

Hi-

Don’t forget chickens and eggs. The Confession was published in the papers long before Z wrote his letters, so if Z was so influenced by the case he could have simply paid homage to that case by copying the writing style. "Squirm and twich" were already in the public record. In general, anything that was in the Confession letter was known by the public by 1969.

Mike

Don’t forget Sherwood saying that the Bates letters & desk were "unquestionably" the work of Zodiac, and Trav’s side by side of the Zodiac’s writing compared to the desktop. I think that would be more than just paying homage, I think he actually authored the letters. Let’s also not forget the double postage too,just like Zodiac’s. Add it all together, and it’s pretty strong.

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 7:10 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

Hi-

Even if it is not an overt homage to the Confession author, I think that whatever was in the public record before the Z case took place that suddenly shows up in his letters has to be looked at with a jaded eye. Maybe he saw the word "twiched" in the Confession, so it was in his subconscious and came out when he wrote out his own letter.

Certainly, the content of the Z letters seem to indicate a much different author from that of the Confession author.

Just IMHO.

Mike

I agree. I also think Zodiac did this with the word "crackproof" in his 1971 letter to the LA Times. I think others (unknowingly) aided Zodiac in his ability to contect him to other crimes, letters, etc.

Some think it must be Zodiac who wrote the FK I’m crackproof card because he wrote about it later in 1971. I think we have "chicken and eggs" here again. The Crackproof card was published in the paper for all (including Zodiac) to read. So did he just take past tidbits and throw them in his letters?


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : May 11, 2013 10:16 pm
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

The tone of the Confession Letter is a bit too poetic to be Zodiac. It has a very different tone from the confirmed Zodiac letters. On the other hand, the writing on the envelope looks a hell of a lot like the stuff in Zodiac’s Halloween card, and there are a number of linguistic similarities that you guys have pointed out.

At the end of the day, though, if you put a gun to my head and asked me what I thought of Zodiac’s involvement in the Riverside case, I would answer that he wrote only the desktop poem and the three ‘Bates Had to Die’ letters, and that he did not kill Cheri.

 
Posted : May 30, 2013 4:47 pm
smithy
(@smithy)
Posts: 955
Prominent Member
 

Double postage – check.
Writing on the envelopes has that "d" – check.
Facts from newspapers as well as elsewhere – check.
Use of comparable language – check.
Messing in a murder case, taunting police, writing to a newspaper – check, check, check.

I believe it was him alright, up to his little tricks.
Nope, he didn’t kill Cheri.

Tahoe – you’re absolutely right, he picked up the word "crackproof" and used it deliberately. How very unfair.

 
Posted : May 30, 2013 8:40 pm
(@a-n-other)
Posts: 30
Eminent Member
 

My belief is that the use of double excessive postage in the Riverside letters is strong evidence that the Zodiac wrote the letters. The double postage became the Zodiac’s MO in future mailings.
There is no doubt that the author of the Riverside "Confession" letter was the actual murderer. He revealed things in the letter about the murder that only the police knew. Therefore Zodiac did the murder and was not just taking credit for it.
Besides I have my own personal belief that the Zodiac had some sort of connection to RCC.

If you read the "Confession" letter that was sent to the Riverside police department you are struck with the idea that this guy had killed before. He strikes me like an experienced killer who showed no remorse for the pain and suffering he inflicted on people. This was not the letter of a kid just out of high school who killed in a fit of rage because he felt rejected. If it had happened that way I am convinced that once he came to his senses he would have been so scared of being caught that the last thing he would do would be to send letters taunting the police with the additive evidence that he actually knew Bates. It’s actually classic misdirection. When you look at the Confession letter you are looking at the early evolution of a serial killer that would later become the Zodiac.

In the Confession letter I think Zodiac is trying to throw off the police investigation by suggesting that he knew Bates and was getting revenge for being brushed off by her. In actuality I don’t think he personally knew her at all. Like most serial killings the victim was randomly chosen. The Zodiac was no genius but he was street smart. He knew that with this misdirection the police would have to investigate everyone who knew Bates all the way back through high school. Everyone who knew Bates would automatically become a possible suspect that would have to be checked out and eliminated. Zodiac knew instinctively that if he committed his murders in different areas under the jurisdictions of many different police departments the lack of cooperation between them would keep them off his trail. And that is the one thing the Zodiac did very well.

 
Posted : June 5, 2013 10:30 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

My belief is that the use of double excessive postage in the Riverside letters is strong evidence that the Zodiac wrote the letters. The double postage became the Zodiac’s MO in future mailings.

The double postage is interesting, but with the 4 cent stamps used at the time, two stamps would have been required.

I do believe most everything written in the letter was in the newspaper…within a couple of days. And wasn’t the knife breaking incorrect? I can’t remember.

The thing (for me) about Cheri’s murder is the violence of it. It seems more personal. It could be because she fought, but there seems to be a rage there.

The misdirection wouldn’t surprise me. While he might not have given her the brush-off in high school, I think he knew her…and I think she knew him.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : June 5, 2013 10:52 pm
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
Reputable Member
 

The Confession Letter didn’t have double postage, though; only the ‘Bates Had to Die’ letters did. As for the knife breaking, the blade didn’t break, yes, but he could have been referring to the handle or the locking mech, if the knife was a switchblade.

I still believe that two different people prepared these two sets of letters.

 
Posted : June 6, 2013 1:22 am
smithy
(@smithy)
Posts: 955
Prominent Member
 

My belief is that the use of double excessive postage in the Riverside letters is strong evidence that the Zodiac wrote the letters. The double postage became the Zodiac’s MO in future mailings.

I tend to agree.

There is no doubt that the author of the Riverside "Confession" letter was the actual murderer. He revealed things in the letter about the murder that only the police knew.

Well, there’s p-lenty of doubt. I think there’s a nice long thread on this somewhere, with newspaper references and so on. I’ll try and find it.

 
Posted : June 6, 2013 2:34 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

RE: The broken Kinfe….Let’s not forget that sometimes,police hold back info from the public on purpose,things that only the killer would know. For all we know, the knife did break off,maybe it was omitted from what we’ve seen. Also, maybe the killer did make that call to police as was written in the confession letter,and police chose not to reveal that

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : June 6, 2013 4:50 pm
Page 1 / 3
Share: