honestly I have zero faith on any of DF’s sister having even an ounce of truth left in them..if they could make a buck off this ordeal they would…my time of thinking DF holds any more significance over the other known Z victims is long long gone..she was at BRS to buy dope off MM and Z was on the prowl that night..outside of stine I dont see any other time Z pushed the envelope..it stinks and my heart goes out to the DF family but I do not trust any of em anymore..

darlene seemed like a free spirit and, however we might judge it, her marriage to dean seems to have worked because he knew and accepted her for who she was.

Can someone expound on Darlene’s marriage to Dean? Seems like she was always hanging out with other men. Also did Dean know that Darlene suspected or thought someone was stalking her. Seems like the sisters, especially Pam, were (are) dead sure about this notion.

It’s called an open marriage. Darlene simply wasn’t necessarily exclusive to Dean. It’s a California thing. More than likely simply Darlene desired the company of other men and Dean trusted her not to do anything to jeopardize their marriage. Something like that, not that any of it is even remotely germane to The Zodiac case.

As for Pam, it’s hard to say just what she thought she knew and believed before Graysmith and irrepressible grief poisoned her mind.

Can someone expound on Darlene’s marriage to Dean? Seems like she was always hanging out with other men. Also did Dean know that Darlene suspected or thought someone was stalking her. Seems like the sisters, especially Pam, were (are) dead sure about this notion.

It’s called an open marriage. Darlene simply wasn’t necessarily exclusive to Dean. It’s a California thing. More than likely simply Darlene desired the company of other men and Dean trusted her not to do anything to jeopardize their marriage. Something like that, not that any of it is even remotely germane to The Zodiac case.

As for Pam, it’s hard to say just what she thought she knew and believed before Graysmith and irrepressible grief poisoned her mind.

Open marriage is a California thing??? Wow…. I never heard that before and I live in CA. Guess I’ll have to share that news with my husband when I get home. Looks like we’ve been doing this whole marriage thing all wrong.

But in all seriousness, I have never heard that they did have an open marriage. From what I have read Darlene and Dean were not married for that long and have appeared to have gotten married after a short amount of time. Having other males around does not mean you have having affairs. I went out to dinner last night with a male friend and we spend a lot of time together. I also had a different male friend in my wedding party and my husband thought nothing of it. And there’s not reason for him too because we truly are just friends. It is unclear as to what Dean knew and it’s also unclear as to how much of the rumors about Darlene are true. It doesn’t look good that she was with a male, in a known "make out" area when she was murdered; however her brother stated that she was there to pick up weed for him. Would all of these rumors have gone around had she been with her sister at the time. Was Darlene having affairs? It seems that way, but she isn’t around to explain what was happening.

In regards to how this is germane to the case is simple. IF Darlene knew Zodiac, was he stalking her and was he jealous of her "other" men? Or was Z a friend of Dean’s that did not like the way she was "running around" on him. Personally speaking, I think it’s unlikely that Darlene did know Z or at least that she was a premeditated victim. If he was local it may be that he knew her from Terry’s, but I also think it’s possible she was a victim of opportunity. They were there and no one else was around. Had Darlene been the first victim, then I’d say she may have known him and been a direct target, but she wasn’t the first or the last.

… Had Darlene been the first victim, then I’d say she may have known him and been a direct target, but she wasn’t the first or the last.

Which could be the perfect way to make one think she wasn’t the intended target. But to me, Mike could have easily been the intended target as well…he just happened to live. If either of them was the target, someone knew where they were going.

Realistically, no fireworks booths were open, which is what Dean and Bill Leigh sent Darlene to go get. It wouldn’t surprise me at all (we’ve discussed this at length) if Mike knew the person to buy weed/"fireworks" from and that is why they were together out there.

… Had Darlene been the first victim, then I’d say she may have known him and been a direct target, but she wasn’t the first or the last.

Which could be the perfect way to make one think she wasn’t the intended target. But to me, Mike could have easily been the intended target as well…he just happened to live. If either of them was the target, someone knew where they were going.

Realistically, no fireworks booths were open, which is what Dean and Bill Leigh sent Darlene to go get. It wouldn’t surprise me at all (we’ve discussed this at length) if Mike knew the person to buy weed/"fireworks" from and that is why they were together out there.

Of the two in car gun killings, the female was the one who in both cases was shot more times than the male. Even here Darlene took 5 bullets, Mike took 4. His aim was to kill the female above all else. The females were always the victims of rage. Betty-lou and Darlene took more bullets, Cecilia was stabbed more times.

The females were the targets, not the men. The men were collateral damage.

Perhaps, Darlene would be alive today if she didn’t take the Friday night off from working at Terry’s Waffle Shop. She and Bobbie Ramos worked the same shift. Either Darlene’s murder was random or someone knew her shift at Terry’s Waffle Shop.

Darlene obviously had numerous male friends and aquatints, both via here job and general socialising. Vengeance and jealousy often manifest themselves in these circumstances. Not to mention she was married and had a baby. Despite this, she seemed to get around. Motive for murder in this situation is as old as time itself. Now whether Z did it is another matter. Regardless, in my mind she knew her killer.

Darlene obviously had numerous male friends and aquatints, both via here job and general socialising. Vengeance and jealousy often manifest themselves in these circumstances. Not to mention she was married and had a baby. Despite this, she seemed to get around. Motive for murder in this situation is as old as time itself. Now whether Z did it is another matter. Regardless, in my mind she knew her killer.

May I ask why?? If the killer was not linked to any other murders I would agree, but under these circumstance.. Why do you believe that? I’m not say 100% she didn’t know him and I do enjoy hearing everyone’s view, but why does everyone assume that with Darlene? I do not mean any disrespect to her sisters, but let’s take their insistence out of the equation. Why do you believe that?? This seems to be a common belief but a lot of that seems to stem from Pam’s claims and her claims on whom it was changes quite a bit based on new claims/suspects/information.

Let’s look at this strictly from a MO stance. Who are attacked??? Couples at known "lover’s lane". Darlene fits 100% into that MO. Regardless of her reason for being there.. Drugs, to talk, to hook up… It’s still a lovers lane and so was the murder before and after. The difference in this case is Darlene had a reputation and alleged stalker; however these claims significantly increased in time and mainly for select sources.

Let’s look at this strictly from a MO stance. Who are attacked??? Couples at known "lover’s lane". Darlene fits 100% into that MO. Regardless of her reason for being there.. Drugs, to talk, to hook up… It’s still a lovers lane and so was the murder before and after. The difference in this case is Darlene had a reputation and alleged stalker; however these claims significantly increased in time and mainly for select sources.

Aren’t we essentially saying the same thing?

Let’s look at this strictly from a MO stance. Who are attacked??? Couples at known "lover’s lane". Darlene fits 100% into that MO. Regardless of her reason for being there.. Drugs, to talk, to hook up… It’s still a lovers lane and so was the murder before and after. The difference in this case is Darlene had a reputation and alleged stalker; however these claims significantly increased in time and mainly for select sources.

Aren’t we essentially saying the same thing?

Not really, that’s my reasoning for believing that it is highly unlikely that she knew her killer or at least she was a permeditated victim. I tend to think that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and that is why she was killed and not that she was sought after. A lot of people seem to think that she is the key in discovering who Z was because she was premediated and I tend to think that was not the case. Darlene may have had a bad rep and a possible stalker, but I DON’T believe that had anything to do with why she was murdered.

Not really, that’s my reasoning for believing that it is highly unlikely that she knew her killer or at least she was a permeditated victim. I tend to think that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and that is why she was killed and not that she was sought after. A lot of people seem to think that she is the key in discovering who Z was because she was premediated and I tend to think that was not the case. Darlene may have had a bad rep and a possible stalker, but I DON’T believe that had anything to do with why she was murdered.

Sure, I see what your saying. If DF didn’t (appear to) have so much access baggage it would look different to me. I have no clue what her reputation was but it seems fair to say she knew a lot of men and persued that interest through several marriages.
She reportedly hung out with cops and drug dealers. Bad mix.

By Talon: "Sure, I see what your saying. If DF didn’t (appear to) have so much access baggage it would look different to me. I have no clue what her reputation was but it seems fair to say she knew a lot of men and persued that interest through several marriages.
She reportedly hung out with cops and drug dealers. Bad mix."

I agree. That’s probably not going to look good and there may have been a lot of jealousy, including her current and ex-husband. In my mind had her case not been linked to Z, then yes, her reported life style would definitely come into play and who knows, maybe her link to cops is what Z was drown too; however I do think it’s most likely that she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or that he saw her earlier and decided she would be the next target. I just have a lot of doubt that what many people have seemed to imply (especially her sister) is really how it happened. That she was stalked and killed because of what she knew. She may have (and in my mind that’s a big MAYBE) been stalked because of something she knew, but I doubt that was by Z. It also appears that Darlene (as well as her two sisters) were drown to drama and she may have exaggerated what was actually going on in her life. She may have been trying to make it sounds more exciting then it truly was.

Finally found Darlene and Dean Ferrin’s marriage record

Darlene E. Phillips
Carson City, Nevada, Marriage Index, 1855-1985 No Image
Name: Darlene E. Phillips
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 3 Aug 1967
Marriage Place: Carson City, Nevada, USA
Spouse: Arthur D. Ferrin
Marriage Description: Carson
Marriage Record Number: 39846578

Of possible interest:

Darlene gave birth to her baby daughter Jan 24, 1968.

Due to that the baby was born Jan 24, 1968,
the babys conception date would have been sometime during the week of: April 29 – May 07, 1967

AND!

Darlene and James Phillips/Crabtree didn’t divorce until June 2nd 1967

Now, the fact that Darlene didn’t get divorced from Jim Phillips/Crabtree until June 2nd 1967
and that Darlene and Dean Ferrin didn’t get married until August 3rd, 1967, which is about 4 months after the conception
I do wonder if Dean was really the father of Darlene’s baby?

Now take a look at this timeline, IF this timeline is correct it seems like James Phillips/Crabtree could maybe have been the father of Darlene’s baby !:

August-Nov 1965
Darlene met James Phillips/Crabtree in San Francisco shortly after he was discharged from the U.S. Army in August 1965.
They began living together and moved to Reno, Nevada.

November 1965,
Darlene left her Vallejo home after a family dispute, and only returned in October 1966.

January 1st, 1966
Darlene marry James Phillips/Crabtree and returned to Vallejo with James

Jan-Oct 1966
Darlene’s mother told police that Darlene told her that they had spent 5 months at the Virgin Islands

October 1966
Darlene and James Phillips/Crabtree return to Vallejo

October 30 1966
Cherri Jo Bates was murdered in Riverside.

January 6-11, 1967
James worked for the Daily Republic Newspaper in Fairfield, California, writing editorials.

February ,1967
(or late January) James and Darlene left California and traveled to Pennsylvania where they spent several months, then returning to Vallejo.

BUT in Darlenes divorce transcript it says:
February 22 – June 2nd 1967
Darlene move to Reno Nevada first she work at the Huddle but after only 2 days get fired and after that she start work at Palace Feb 24th, 1967,
AND in the divorce transcript she stated that the had stayed in Reno from Feb 22 to the date of when she was at the court and the the divorce transcript was made which was probably June 2nd,1967 due to that in the transcript it is said that the divorce was granted, and we know the divorce was final June 2nd, 1967.

May 1, 1967 (5+/-4 days)
Darlene get pregnant

June 2, 1967
Darlene determined that James and her marriage was going nowhere, and on June 2, 1967, get a divorce in Reno.

August 3rd, 1967 Darlene marry Dean Ferrin and she is at this time aprox. 3-4 months pregnant.

Jan 24, 1968 Darlene give birth to her baby daughter

SO, if this timeline is correct (some of it might not be?) then it is possible that James Phillip/Crabtree is the father of Darlenes baby and if Darlene was the one who ended the marriage and James did NOT want to end the marriage, and knew the baby was his, THAT would give him a motive to kille Darlene.

Other possibilities are that some, to us unknown, man was the father, maybe even the Zodiac ? or that it indeed WAS Dean Ferrin who was the father.

From this link I got some of the date etc. info, lots of info in there but some of it is probably questionable, but not the part I have copied I believe.:

https://kevinbarryzodiacblog.wordpress. … ly-4-1969/

In November 1965, after a heated family dispute, Darlene left home and only returned in October 1966. Darlene met James in San Francisco shortly after he was discharged from the U.S. Army in August 1965. They began living together and moved to Reno, Nevada. She returned to Vallejo with a partner, having eloped with James on January 1, 1966. It seems that James, unlike Dean, Darlene’s second husband, was well aware of Darlene’s extramarital affairs. He told police that the marriage was on rocky grounds because she was inclined to run around with other men.

According to reports, and after returning home, Darlene told her mother that she and James had spent five months in the Virgin Islands. Reports further indicate that James claimed to own a newspaper there and that previously he was an undercover agent in the U.S. Army.

From January 6, 1967, to January 11, 1967, James worked for the Daily Republic Newspaper in Fairfield, California, writing editorials. However, when police requested proof of his employment, no records were found. He left the Newspaper for no apparent reason, and later the organization received several inquiries about money being owed to various people in the Fairfield area. Shortly after that, James and Darlene left California and traveled to Pennsylvania where they spent several months, returning to Vallejo. Darlene determined that their marriage was going nowhere, and on June 2, 1967, they traveled back to Reno to get a divorce.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DeeCourt3.html
Darlene’s Divorce transcript probably from Jun 2, 1967 due to that at the end of the transcript the divorce is granted.

If anyone have other info and/or corrections to this timeline please feel free to add/correct