Thank you for putting up this fascinating clip, Quicktradeer. I haven’t seen it before.I don’t believe Pam was (is) lying. I had always thought that of all of the victims of the Zodiac that Darlene was the key one. She knew who her attacker was and wasn’t a random selection. It seems like the police and FBI probably examined all of her claims thoroughly over the years and came up empty-handed. I think Pam even confronted Richard Gaikowski and Michael Magneau (sic). It doesn’t necessarily follow that if Darlene knew the attacker that Michael did as well. Did Pam have a POI?

I surmise that the Zodiac at to be a resident of Vallejo and a person who knew the histories and living arrangements of the 4 young people shot in Vallejo and Benica. I think ALA fits the bill here but not so much for Berryessa and not at all for San Francisco.

Thank you for putting up this fascinating clip, Quicktradeer. I haven’t seen it before.I don’t believe Pam was (is) lying. I had always thought that of all of the victims of the Zodiac that Darlene was the key one. She knew who her attacker was and wasn’t a random selection. It seems like the police and FBI probably examined all of her claims thoroughly over the years and came up empty-handed. I think Pam even confronted Richard Gaikowski and Michael Magneau (sic). It doesn’t necessarily follow that if Darlene knew the attacker that Michael did as well. Did Pam have a POI?

I surmise that the Zodiac at to be a resident of Vallejo and a person who knew the histories and living arrangements of the 4 young people shot in Vallejo and Benica. I think ALA fits the bill here but not so much for Berryessa and not at all for San Francisco.

ALA would be a nice candidate, however he doesn’t fit the sketch nor the DNA profile.

QT

It’s not a lie if you believe it.

I believe Pam was sincere, but it seems to just be an assumption on her part. There is no proof of what she said, then, or now.

While i can buy into a women being present at time of cjb’s homicide….i cant bring myself to believe it was ferrin…not buying the other connections either as reported on in the utuber……i dont think df and gaik had any relationship either…i highly doubt narlow ever implicated gaik…i highly doubt..well you get the idea…all evidence that we have ever had access to has never shown a df and cjb connection…at least none i have ever come across..last i know of the z is he was so distraught that his a’s tanked after 1973 he just gave up his past, got married, had kids, and became a sub prime lender in the savings and loan industry cause that was legal extortion and where the money was at..he is retired nicely in naples florida now

Quick…..

Has anyone ever seen any evidence, real evidence to support what Pam says, that Darlene knew Cheri Jo, how so, where’s the evidence of this? You would think cops would be all over this, looking at any possible common thread. 2 people being murdered 3 years apart, 300 miles apart, but both victims knew each other, that would be huge info for police, and one they would beat to death to find if it were true. How does Pam know this? If she knows it then others should be able to confirm it….. With Betty Lou, if her parents stated that they never hired Darlene to watch their daughter, I would have to go with the parents. Pam would not have even been involved in the deal, but the parents would have been. Again cops, and the parents here, would be all over this. Betty Lou is murdered on Dec. 20, 1968, Darlene on July 5, 1969, so 6 1/2 months apart. It’s all over the news Betty Lou’s parents would wonder if it could be the same killer, Darlene’s face and name all over the news, and neither parent is going to recall that they had Darlene in their home to sit for their murdered daughter? Come on, they’d be on the phone with the cops immediately. Maybe when it was in the news that Betty Lou was murdered, Darlene told Pam she had babysat for Betty Lou? That could have happened, young folks do lie, but once the Jenkins said no, that would tell everyone that never happened. Why would anyone ever repeat this story again, knowing that it’s false? How hurtful that would be to the Jenkins.

We know that Cecilia Shepard had ties to the LA area. There also were two mysterious men who had taken girls to LA, prositution might but must not have played a role. Now I wonder: Pam was sure that Dee had known Betty Lou. Betty Lou’s parents, however, there was a killer of their daughter, with grief ruling their world, still at loose. What should they have done? They didn’t know the killer of their daughter (rather being afraid of such guy). They even might have talked to the police after Dee’s murder, however nothing else to say than Dee could have been their babysitter. Maybe the police even knows about it, without any result.

I always had thought that Dee had witnessed Betty Lou’s murder..Pam states differently, even outposts that Dee had known CJB. This, at least to me, was news (from the 70ies..lol). Why should Pam talk like this (‘Right, she knew Cheri Jo..’). The moderator interupts her instead of listening. But why should Pam talk about it if she wasn’t sure about it somehow? She could have believed that Dee had witnessed Z’s murder of Betty Lou instead..however she talks about CJB.

IMO Pam, if not an absolutely insane actress, was at least aware that Dee had been at Riverside. Not to forget that she had lived with her under the same roof, thus knew if Dee had gone for a day off or so to the LA area. No evidence, that’s correct, but interesting to hear such stuff from Darlene’s sister.

My second thought is that we should have a closer look to other Vallejo victims: Such as Shiri Dine Bana..she was found at Reservoir Road, near Lake Herman Road. Her car was found, most likely parked by her killer, across three parking stalls at Blue Rock Springs. Or Connie Gail Minchaca, who was from Napa/Vallejo, too. Or missing Lisa Dickinson. Or Eileen Hynson, who disappeared from Lake Berryessa when being en route to a bridal party dress fitting in Benicia. Or Deana Hooper, who disappeared from the ‘enlisted mens club’ on Mare Island, where victim Elaine Faye Lehtinen had worked nearby. The list can be continued..Letitia Fagot, lived at 148 Los Cerros Avenue, same street where Lisa Dickinson had lived at..Corinne June Groenenberg, from Modesto where Kathleen Johns was kidnapped from..Ingrid Angela Anderson, from Walnut Creek, never found..Lynda Christine Kanes, went to Pacific Union College..Leona Roberts, Lynn Marjorie Bandringa etc…

It’s so crazy that this guy is still running around as a free man (if not already burried)..

The connection of Los Cerros Avenue (Lisa Dickinson and Letitia Fagot) is somehow interesting..I wonder if someone would react on publishing some Z sketches down the road..

QT

Quick…..

Thanks for that list of potential Z cases, or at least cases of missing people from the Bay Area. I did so far find one on your list, Letitia Fagot, who disappeared in 1975. Her case has been solved. A serial killer from the Bay Area, Philip Joseph Hughes was convicted in Latitia’s case. LE suspects that Hughes is involved in many more of the missing girls from the N. Bay Area. I’ll keep searching, I have some more names that can be added to your list of gal’s who went missing and have never been found, all from the Bay Area, mostly 1970’s, a couple of girls in 1969….

Thanks Again,

BayArea60s

Quick…..

Thanks for that list of potential Z cases, or at least cases of missing people from the Bay Area. I did so far find one on your list, Letitia Fagot, who disappeared in 1975. Her case has been solved. A serial killer from the Bay Area, Philip Joseph Hughes was convicted in Latitia’s case. LE suspects that Hughes is involved in many more of the missing girls from the N. Bay Area. I’ll keep searching, I have some more names that can be added to your list of gal’s who went missing and have never been found, all from the Bay Area, mostly 1970’s, a couple of girls in 1969….

Thanks Again,

BayArea60s

Thanks for the info..so we can rule Z out regarding Los Cerros Avenue..guess Hughes was also responsible for Lisa Dickinson then..so he apparently was for Lisa Berry and Maureen Field..

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … 700&p=4561

QT

Quick.

Yes it said those cases, along with many others are thought to be the work of Hughes. So many missing people, so many serials in Ca 60’s – 80’s.

There is an excellent video with Pam. She mainly claims two things: First that Darlene had known Cheri Jo Bates and as well had witnessed her murder. Secondly that Darlene was babysitting Betty Lou. If that is true, both is very interesting, imo. To me it doesn’t appear that Pam wants to bragg around, she rather seems to be stressed and honest about what she says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEilZL2JTUw

‘Remember the killing I told you about a few years ago? Well it’s gonna be in the paper tomorrow so don’t be surprised’ (2:09)
‘She has seen her to get killed. Moderator: That’s why he was stalking her? Right, she knew Cheri Jo..’ (2:52)
‘And when in got down to when he killed Betty Lou, which was the girl that Darlene used to babysit for..her parents say no but I believe that she did..she knew Betty Lou.’ (3:23)

Especially the last sentence, that Darlene had known Betty Lou, is quite convincing. She also claims that she had been knocked down by a home intruder but three days before she went to the show. If this was not accidential, then Z must have known about Pam going to that show. If you look at all this from a reverse aspect, such as that Pam would be lying and bragging, she must have been an excellent actress..

QT

Pam called to tell me when she was knocked out with in a hour or so of it happening. I saw some marks drawn on her leg that she said was done with something sharp. She could be right about Darlene being at the CJB crime scene. The envelope written in Dee’s own hand, showed words that coincide what that murder. However Pam stated that Betty Lou baby sat for Deana, she didn’t because Betty Lou’s mother said she didn’t. Pam also said that Paul Stine drove Dee all over SF in his cab. Paul was not a cab driver when Dee was a live. It is very sad that Pam did her best to try and connect her sister to all of the victims to try and get the police to look at that case and do something about it. But the fact is that they don’t believe anything she says, because she has been proven to not be truthful in their eyes.
She lied to me many times and has apologized to me for that. I like her very much and do my best to try and get her sisters killer caught just the same. We both have been through a lot with this stalker who has told her he is in fact the Zodiac. He has never called to tell me he is Zodiac, he says to me "Its Me". I say to him hi Me, it is me, and he laughs Ha ha ha. Always 3 ha’s.

Where is the proof? It’s non-existent. This story is too phantasmagorical for me to even waste my time watching it on youtube.

Where is the proof? It’s non-existent. This story is too phantasmagorical for me to even waste my time watching it on youtube.

If you can offer anything better than a statement of one of the victim’s relative, you are welcome.

QT

Unfortunately, QT, Pam’s statements are all over the place. That doesn’t make a better case for her, it makes it worse.

Where is the proof? It’s non-existent. This story is too phantasmagorical for me to even waste my time watching it on youtube.

If you can offer anything better than a statement of one of the victim’s relative, you are welcome.

QT

Did Darlene actually ever go to Riverside? If so, why?