The hunters using .22 rifle or ammo is no mystery, they are raccoon hunting, and that is typical gun and ammo for coon hunting.

Exactly, a .22 is great for small game, but not something you would want if you were hunting humans. The crime was committed with a .22. Just so happen there were two people in the immediate area within 10 minutes of the crime that both had .22’s.

As much of a POI Owens is, I am going to say that Robert M Connley is just as interesting. He was at the scene in the small window, with a weapon of the same caliber. He was allowed to turn in his own gun for testing. (Like Owen)

After the hunting trip he returned to his home in NAPA. He also worked in Vallejo.

Peggy Your claimed he fit the description from BRS.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR23.html

Just saying if Owen is a good fit, and I believe he should be looked at, Connley is just as good. And he’s still alive for questioning.

Is there another thread on Robert M Connley? A good point made about hunting humans with a .22.
Is it accurate about his home being in Napa?

I found the "lacking chrome" phrase in the police report. It’s coupled with "not large & not compact" and attributed to no one.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR6.html

Which is awesome, because neither of those description are mentioned anywhere under witness accounts.

You’ve been at this a lot longer than me, so if you say it’s Owens I’ll take your word for it.

It HAS to be from Owen, he is the ONLY person that saw Zodiac’s car(if there was one). He is the only one that could have given any mention of the car. Remember, he said in one statement it was 3-4 ft away from Dave’s car,and in the other statement, it was 10 ft apart

Pretty sure that a dark car lacking chrome is mentioned somewhere else in that report. Seems like they mention a glowing dash too, but’s it’s late…I could be mistaken.

I found the "lacking chrome" phrase in the police report. It’s coupled with "not large & not compact" and attributed to no one.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR6.html

Which is awesome, because neither of those description are mentioned anywhere under witness accounts.

You’ve been at this a lot longer than me, so if you say it’s Owens I’ll take your word for it.

It HAS to be from Owen, he is the ONLY person that saw Zodiac’s car(if there was one). He is the only one that could have given any mention of the car. Remember, he said in one statement it was 3-4 ft away from Dave’s car,and in the other statement, it was 10 ft apart

Pretty sure that a dark car lacking chrome is mentioned somewhere else in that report. Seems like they mention a glowing dash too, but’s it’s late…I could be mistaken.

I thought the same thing….that the description of the car lacking chrome came from Peggy Your about the car at the Humble Oil entrance. But it’s not. Morf is on it.

What amazes me about this incident is how everyone seems to just accept as if it were undeniable fact that Zodiac was even in a car at Lake Herman Road.

This is taken as Fact, because James Owen says this is what he saw, as he drove by the scene on his way to work. He saw the car pulled in forward side by side nexxt to Faraday’s. A few minutes later, Borges found the bodies. Owen basically steered the entire police investigation, and as I have well documented, there are several reasons his account should be questioned and scrutinized.

Morf, you think there is any chance someone was in the car with Owens? Maybe the guy he worked with? The shell casings would line up better that way.

1. They pull in beside the rambler.
2a. Passenger gets out, immediately shoots warning shot.(shell casing at 20ft)
2b. Driver gets out and moves to rear/drivers side of rambler to keep them from exiting that direction.
3. Passenger walks to front of perp car and fires another warning shot.(shell casing at 14ft)
4. Faraday and Jensen still don’t exit vehicle.
5. Two shots in rambler. One in back side glass, one in roof.
6. They finally exit vehicle.
7. David shot immediately.
8. Jensen shot immediately after as running, stumbling along.

Or else, If Owens is involved by himself, I think he made the whole side by side thing up… as the backing in thing seems very clumsy to me. If he was by himself and did the shooting, how about this….

1. He pulls in behind the rambler… just like the perp at BRS.
2. He walks to the passenger side with flashlight (kids might think hes police)… just like BRS.
3. Betty Lou rolls down window, zodiac shows gun and tells them to get out.
4. They refuse… he puts two into side of rambler. One in back side glass, one hits top of roof.
5. Betty Lou gets out, David follows.
6. He shoots David.
7. Immediately shoots Jensen in back.
8. She cant turn towards road because perps car is blocking the way.
9. As shes about at the back of the perps car, perp fires last two shots at her. Casings land on hood of his car.
10. Perp gets in his car, backs up a couple feet, pulls in towards gate, bullets fall of hood (one off the front-20ft and one off left side – 14ft).
11. Killer backs out and heads back towards Vallejo.

I like the second one better, even though the heading back to Vallejo part makes little sense.

Anything more on this would be pure speculation on my part. I know that the one shell casing being so far from the others is odd. I think a shot came further out in that direction,but how or why, I don’t know. I don’t see any reason to think Owen had somebody in the car. If Zodiac parked behind the Rambler, he would be awfully close to the road, so he likely needed to park side by side to get him out of the road. If I was Z, I would have backed in for faster get away,and maybe to have the advantage of seeing oncoming headlights.

I was looking at 9mm shell casings online for another Z reason and came across this article about shell ejection patterns:
http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=1
The pertinent information being:
"Depending on those variables, extracted casings can end up virtually anywhere at a shooting scene," explains Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the nonprofit FSRC. "Their final location alone will confirm virtually nothing about a shooter’s firing position unless you know how he was holding his gun and how he was moving at the time of discharge. By changing those characteristics, you can place shells all over the place."
Given the hard ground and lack of tracks for verification I think this means the anomalous shell location is probably just an outlying statistic rather than an indication of an alternative scenario.

What if a gust of wind blew the casing?

A possibility why Jensen/Faraday had not exited from the drivers side of their car is that they had already left the car earlier, e.g. to talk to someone or because they believed to be controlled by a police officer. Not to forget that there is a police shooting range nearby.

Some more facts from the police reports (~20 additional sites can be found on zodiackillerfacts, great site!):

Bingo Wesher:
He lived at the ‘Old Borges Ranch’ by Humble Oil company. He checked his sheep around 10:00 PM in the area ‘East of the Benicia pumping station’. He observed the white Chevrolet Impala Sedan at the South fence of to the pumping station (which is imo not the area of the police shooting range, imo). He did not observe the Jensen/Faraday Rambler, yet. However he already observed the red pick-up truck of Connoly and Gasser (p. 19).

Mr. Owen:
It was found out that Mr. Owen’s clock went about 5 minutes fast. He therefore arrived at the scene at approximately 11:15 PM, narrowing the time for Zodiac to commit the crime actually to -2 minutes instead of +6 or 7 minutes. This makes him a suspect or at least a POI. It takes him about 19 minutes to drive from his home to the scene, so if his cuckoo clock was at 11:00 PM (actually 10:55 PM) when he actually had left, he even was there at 11:14 PM. Stella Borges arrived at about 11:12 PM and already found the bodies. However there are still two scenarios: First we don’t know when Stella Borges did really arrive..somewhere it is written that she had arrived at the police station at 11:25 PM and possibly it takes her only five minutes to get there. It therefore is possible that she took longer than expected as we don’t know if she had phoned before or after she had looked at her clock. The second scenario is that Owen had actually seen the bodies and passed by because he was afraid of reporting it to the police. The next day, realizing what he had done and reading about it in the newspaper, he decided to go to police telling them that he had heard a shot. It is even possible that he saw Zodiac committing the crime and is or was fearing for his life (p. 23).

Brenda:
There is a police report of Brenda, a schoolmate of Betty Lou. I think she relates to Ricky Allen Burton when she mentions that he was just ‘using’ Betty Lou at school. What he knows, however, is that Ricky (mentioned in the report) spends a lot of time with his brother-in-law. And this brother-in-law has an ‘older car, it is blue with the paint coming off’. She heard that Ricky hangs around the ‘Jumping Bean’ on Springs Road (placing him near Blue Rock Springs). She also mentions a ‘Luther’, who drives a white pick-up (unrelated to the scene). But the blue car of her brother-in-law however could very well be the car that was seen at the crime scene, with a man talking to the guard. This would support a scenario that one or two people, Rick and his brother-in-law, could have been involved in the crime. Also, if the name of the brother-in-law is ‘Pete’, this would completely fit the description of Larry and Linda, who described Pete’s car as a ’52 Chevrolet, blue in color. And, finally, the brother-in-law is working at the auto wrecker where Ricky had gone right on the next day after the attack. He even claims that he got informed about the crime when his mother called him there (why did she mention it to him, if at all?). What appears to be gossip first, is eventually the most important information of the whole police report. And if the brother-in-law was the marijuana dealer who Dave wanted to ‘turn in’, there is not only some solid motive but also a very good reason for Ricky to threaten Betty Lou and calling her about every 15 minutes. And finally, this brother-in-law had access to other cars, e.g. used at the BRS crime scene (p. 35).

Stan:
He saw two cars around 10:30 PM. An ‘Olds’ 2-door, blue H.T. 88 (Don) (?) and a ’63 white Chevrolet Impala (year correct?) with two persons inside heading towards Blue Rock Springs (p. 38).

Racoon hunters:
Frank Gasser and Robert Connely reported the time when they had left the entrance of Marshall Ranch at about 11:05 PM. They therefore presumably passed the scene before the crime had happened. The time of the attack can therefore be narrowed to 11:05 PM to 11:13 PM (Borges) or 11:14 PM (Owen), with Owen ‘hearing’ the shot rather around 11:14 PM (crime happened therefore sometime between 11:12 PM and 11:13 PM). The racoon hunters state that, when passing by at about 11:05 PM to 11:07 PM, they saw the Rambler parked at the ‘bank’, which is possibly the Southwest position. Earlier, at 9:00 PM, they also saw the white Chevy ’59 or ’60 Impala and a truck coming out of the gate, coinciding with Bingo Wesher’s statement (probably his truck). The white Chevy driver therefore did not just went for a piss but rather stayed there for at least an hour. And, if it’s true what they say, Jensen/Faraday had moved their car between 11:06 PM and 11:13 PM. This statement is contradictory to what the Your’s had mentioned, that the Rambler was ‘still in the same spot’ (or they passed the scene the second time before 11:06 PM; p. 40 and the Yours report). Latter however is coinciding with the statement of ‘Helen’ who mentioned the car to having changed its position between 10:15 PM and 10:30 PM. Please also note that there is a picture of the Rambler, standing on the West side of the gate, and that you can see some tire tracks leading from the Lake Herman Road rather than ranking around from the Southwest side of the gate.

Daniel:
Daniel confirms that he was with David and Betty Lou from 5:00 PM to 6:00 PM at the ‘Landers’ house. This confirms the version of ‘Joe’ who mentioned that both were at ‘David’s house. There obviously exists another David named David Landers (p. 44).

Robert Compl:
Robert Compl from Benicia states that he could think of a prowler ‘continously watching their house’ whom he and his wife could not get rid of. They also saw a blue wagon driving around at night and does he believe that the prowler was a ex friend of his wife (p. 46).

Helen:
Helen states that the car was parked to the Gate at 10:15 PM and that it was parked to the field when they came back at 10:30 PM. She further states that she saw a yellow, brand new foreign car with two passengers, the driver being male, parked near the crime scene (p. 47, 48).

Larry (19yrs):
At 9:00 PM a guy named Larry states that a guy named ‘Rat’ tried to sell him an automatic rifle, holding a clip of five bullets but able to hold more. He fired a shot into a fence at a residence at the end of Gate Way Drive, near the park. He is actually another guy shooting around out there that night (p. 52).

Mr. Don:
Mr. Don states he saw three young people with one of them holding a gun towards the ground. Their car is described as a small foreign model, white or cream in color. One of those juveniles could eventually have been a weapon dealer who had contacted Larry (p. 53).

Larry (20yrs.) & Linda:
Stated that the ‘Pete’ who verbally attacked Linda drives a ’52 blue Chevrolet Coupe as well as a ’55 creme or maroon (BRS phone booth!) Buick. Pete is 28 yrs. old, 5’11” tall, has jet black hair and acne pits on his face. He is a helper at Kaiser Steel and is working the day shift. If ‘Kaiser Steel’ is connected to the auto-wrecker Ricky used to go (and his brother-in-law worked at), this Pete could be our new suspect. And, for what its good, there is a auto speedway behind Kaiser Steel mills in San Bernardino ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontana,_California; (p 59).

What if a gust of wind blew the casing?

I was thinking something simple as well. Maybe he kicked it in the dark walking back to his vehicle?

What if a gust of wind blew the casing?

I was thinking something simple as well. Maybe he kicked it in the dark walking back to his vehicle?

20 ft from the other shell casings is awfull far to get kicked, or blow. Casings are not all that light,and when lying flat on the ground, there is not alot of surface to get caught in the wind. The only way I could see it getting that far away,outside of somebody firing from over there, is to have peeled wheels out of there, and maybe somehow threw it with their tire,but that’s a stretch too.

You can get an idea of the shooting,shell ejection,etc of similar guns to the LHR murder weapon,which was a J.C. Higgins 80 model or Hi Standard model 101.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri7yWr6bkDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37_1KPXnA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5u3m6bmPWg

In the 3rd youtube link, look how closely to the shooter those shells drop. VERY CLOSE. Again, this is the reason I have a hard time believing a shell casing wound up 20ft away from all the other casings.

Mr. Owen:
It was found out that Mr. Owen’s clock went about 5 minutes fast. He therefore arrived at the scene at approximately 11:15 PM, narrowing the time for Zodiac to commit the crime actually to -2 minutes instead of +6 or 7 minutes. This makes him a suspect or at least a POI. It takes him about 19 minutes to drive from his home to the scene, so if his cuckoo clock was at 11:00 PM (actually 10:55 PM) when he actually had left, he even was there at 11:14 PM. Stella Borges arrived at about 11:12 PM and already found the bodies. However there are still two scenarios: First we don’t know when Stella Borges did really arrive..somewhere it is written that she had arrived at the police station at 11:25 PM and possibly it takes her only five minutes to get there. It therefore is possible that she took longer than expected as we don’t know if she had phoned before or after she had looked at her clock. The second scenario is that Owen had actually seen the bodies and passed by because he was afraid of reporting it to the police. The next day, realizing what he had done and reading about it in the newspaper, he decided to go to police telling them that he had heard a shot. It is even possible that he saw Zodiac committing the crime and is or was fearing for his life (p. 23).
QT

What site is this from???

The only way I could see it getting that far away,outside of somebody firing from over there, is to have peeled wheels out of there, and maybe somehow threw it with their tire,but that’s a stretch too.

That was my other thought lol. I would have guessed though that there ‘might’ have been evidence of that, a mark on the ground from the initial contact, a scrape. I know the ground was frozen but still. Just wondering out loud, I’d really need to read over everyone’s comments and discussions from the past and get my own head around all the info before offering even an opinion.

Till then I’m gonna refer to everything, regarding my own thoughts, inwardly, as "The magic casing theory" lol.

One is 20 ft. Another one is 14 ft, although in the police sketch it’s drawn bunched close to the main group of shells(obviously out of scale). The rest are close to the car. I’ve never personally had a shell travel 14 ft. Although I’ve never done any shooting in a gravel parking area.

One is 20 ft. Another one is 14 ft, although in the police sketch it’s drawn bunched close to the main group of shells(obviously out of scale). The rest are close to the car. I’ve never personally had a shell travel 14 ft. Although I’ve never done any shooting in a gravel parking area.

Two shots fired from further away,14&20ft away warning shots if you will,into the air, or into their car,etc…..then all of the grouped shell casings fired at the victims once they are out of the car. That scenario makes sense to me