Yeah I wondered if the paramedics/Police had moved her in an attempt to save her life but I thought if they had they’d have turned her onto her back so they could start CPR Chest Compressions etc. I know Betty as shot 5 times and David once, but there just seems to be too much blood loss from Bettys head for it to be from bullets to the torso for me. It looks to me like she’s been shot in the head for there to be that big a pool of blood around her head. I mean I am not qualified to offer an opinion based on a knowledge of the body’s reaction to bullet penetration, and never has it been suggested she was shot in any other part of the body except her torso. Police never tell the public everything about a crime and it’s scene for obvious reasons. I readily accept that I am probably making something out of nothing but it just looks too much blood for me. :-/

Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

We have discussed this elsewhere on the forum, either this one or the old one. It was suggested that Betty Lou may have involuntarily changed positions in the throes of death. She may have been on her side when Zodiac last saw her but perhaps precariously and she rolled onto her face after he left. Also, maybe the first responders when checking to see if she had a pulse moved her a bit.

Not just Zodiac, but also Borges claimed that Betty was on her side. Borges said she was on her side,then she raced off for help.

Another thing, Zodiac repeatedly said in his first three letters to three Bay Area newspapers is that "The girl was on her right side, feet to the west." She looks on her front face down to me.

We have discussed this elsewhere on the forum, either this one or the old one. It was suggested that Betty Lou may have involuntarily changed positions in the throes of death. She may have been on her side when Zodiac last saw her but perhaps precariously and she rolled onto her face after he left. Also, maybe the first responders when checking to see if she had a pulse moved her a bit.

Not just Zodiac, but also Borges claimed that Betty was on her side. Borges said she was on her side,then she raced off for help.

Well if she was laying on her side when Stella saw her, then either Betty Lou was still alive and rolled onto her front herself after Stella speeds away (which would suggest that the incident itself must have occurred literally seconds to a minute or two at most before she pulls up) or, someone else moved her into that position and seen as none of the R.O’s, Ambulance Paramedics or anyone else reports moving Betty, then surely the killer must have and if the killer did, he moved her after Stella had driven by but before the R.O’s responded to the scene which would mean…. He was still there at the scene somewhere whilst Stella went passed.

But back to the large amount of blood around Bettys head area, I just re-read the Police Report and the first thing R.O’s Butterbach & Waterman recall about the scene and victim Betty Lou was "There was a body on the ground partially covered with a wool blanket. The face and head were covered in blood."
There would be no reason for her face and head in general to be covered in blood if she’d simply been shot in the torso.

There would be no reason for her face and head in general to be covered in blood if she’d simply been shot in the torso.

You would think so but she was shot through both lungs. Three through the right lung and one through the left with "extensive hemorrhaging" to both. So, perhaps that blood came out of her mouth and nose and if she did roll before finally passing away then that would account for blood on the head and the face.

Whenever you are shot in the torso or lung their is a good chance you are going to cough up blood. Especially when your lungs are shot and they fill up with blood. It’s an extremely gruesome death.

What sort of hate and rage building inside of a person would cause them to shoot a sweet baby girl like Betty Lou? This is a very anger filled act…

Here’s the bit of the documentary "This is the Zodiac Speaking" made to accompany the 2007 film. This shows the view from a car at night driving towards the parking spot/crime scene. For visual reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys#t=214

Thanks Trav, as previously stated, the view is pretty good and no way to miss bodies on the ground

Here’s the bit of the documentary "This is the Zodiac Speaking" made to accompany the 2007 film. This shows the view from a car at night driving towards the parking spot/crime scene. For visual reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys#t=214

This vantage point is good because you get to see what James Owen & Stella Borges would have seen as they approached the Gravel Gated Area where Betty & David were parked. Seeing this for the POV of passing vehicles, it makes me ponder the same question as I, and others, have asked previously: "When Owen passed, where were Betty and David and, perhaps more importantly, where was Zodiac? Two Vehicles on scene, no people in them, nor anywhere around them, Owen reports. I’ve said many times that I am highly sceptical of there ever being a second vehicle there and Z may have been on foot but, for the purpose of this question, let’s assume that Owen was being entirely truthful. Where were Betty and David, and more importantly, where was Zodiac?

Given the location, the long and winding dark country lane road with zero artificial road lighting, the Killer would likely see headlights of an approaching vehicle from at least a miles distance away (if anyone has driven that road at night and know more specifically what the visibility range is from the gated entrance to the lights of an approaching vehicle, then I’ll happily accept being corrected). My thought is, if the killer was able to see Owen’s headlights approaching in the distance, he ordered them to duck out of sight in their vehicle while he went and hid out of sight just the other side of the gate behind the fence thus accounting for the deep heel shoe imprint found and mentioned by investigators?

That graphic photo must have been computer-colored because the original was black-and-white.

Betty Lou, as I recall, was not shot in the face, but in the chest-back area. It is common for blood to flow from the mouth.

Although that spot was a popular lover’s lane and a frequent hang-out for young people, I wonder if they were "lured" to that spot for a reason by someone?

This is one case that, for lack of eyewitnesses, we will never know, but talking to people who knew them and even saw them up to their last hour or so might shed some light on what might have happened. The rest is speculation.

As far as going to a movie or play, the time of the year was Christmas, and in those times, it was a tradition of the schools to put on a Christmas program.
So, it is of no surprise or suspicion that Betty Lou would tell her parents David was taking her to the Christmas Concert (which was a cover-up).
From David’s sister, we have the impression that David was tipped about a group of kids getting together at the "lover’s lane" that evening….but, again, we don’t know why. All we do know is it was very cold, below freezing, they went to friends’ homes, then to Mr. Ed’s and headed down to the fateful place.

The rest remains a mystery and will remain so, unless somebody who saw something comes forward. Owens was the closest person to see anything, and
he should have been interrogated more than he was – investigated into as well! I would regard him as a suspect, until he was/is cleared.

That graphic photo must have been computer-colored because the original was black-and-white.

Betty Lou, as I recall, was not shot in the face, but in the chest-back area. It is common for blood to flow from the mouth.

Although that spot was a popular lover’s lane and a frequent hang-out for young people, I wonder if they were "lured" to that spot for a reason by someone?

This is one case that, for lack of eyewitnesses, we will never know, but talking to people who knew them and even saw them up to their last hour or so might shed some light on what might have happened. The rest is speculation.

As far as going to a movie or play, the time of the year was Christmas, and in those times, it was a tradition of the schools to put on a Christmas program.
So, it is of no surprise or suspicion that Betty Lou would tell her parents David was taking her to the Christmas Concert (which was a cover-up).
From David’s sister, we have the impression that David was tipped about a group of kids getting together at the "lover’s lane" that evening….but, again, we don’t know why. All we do know is it was very cold, below freezing, they went to friends’ homes, then to Mr. Ed’s and headed down to the fateful place.

The rest remains a mystery and will remain so, unless somebody who saw something comes forward. Owens was the closest person to see anything, and
he should have been interrogated more than he was – investigated into as well! I would regard him as a suspect, until he was/is cleared.

"I wonder if they were "lured" to that spot for a reason by someone?"

Very possible, yes. They stayed there for quite a while, even surpassing Betty-Lou’s parents deadline of 11.00PM. I said a few weeks ago that considering this was not only Betty’s & David’s first date, but the first date ever that Betty had been allowed to go on, that you would think David would want to make a good impression and get Betty home before, or at the latest, 11.00PM. They are still observed parked there at 11.15 just before the murders take place.
This again makes me think Zodiac was probably on foot because why didn’t they leave to head home? Well if Zodiac had come from hiding behind the fence and foliage and ducked into their back seat, he could order them to not move or try and drive off. This could also explain why the Rambler seemed to go from facing out onto Lake Herman, to facing the fence and Pumping Station when it was found. Zodiac may have been getting nervous as the cars pass not knowing if David is trying to covertly let the passer by know something is wrong. And there’s that heel or boot imprint found just behind the gated section in an area where there was foliage to give cover to anyone hiding waiting to ambush.

It also seems as though the initial investigation believed that the offender was on foot, as seen here in this article:

Again, this has to come up regarding Zodiac on foot. How do we explain the car seen there by Owen? 20 seconds after he drove by he heard a shot. The person that killed them was associated with that car. As you well know,I don’t neccessarily believe Owen, but my reasoning is because I think he could be Zodiac, and wanted to cover his ass. You think he lied just to lie. I still don’t understand your reasoning here regarding Zodiac being on foot.

Again, this has to come up regarding Zodiac on foot. How do we explain the car seen there by Owen? 20 seconds after he drove by he heard a shot. The person that killed them was associated with that car. As you well know,I don’t neccessarily believe Owen, but my reasoning is because I think he could be Zodiac, and wanted to cover his ass. You think he lied just to lie. I still don’t understand your reasoning here regarding Zodiac being on foot.

No I am not saying, nor do I think, Owen simply lied for the sake of it. I did say some people are compulsive liars but in Owen’s case it coulda number of factors playing into why he lied, if in fact, he did lie. He may have felt, when being questioned by police, that he was coming under suspicion for this crime and feeling concerned, came up with the ‘I saw a second vehicle there’ so that he could go back to being a helpful witness for the investigation. Not saying that’s what happened, but unless you know Owen’s personality and thought process, it’s possible.

I mean if he is lying, it oesn’t have to be because he himself is Zodiac, although I agree that I wouldn’t rule that possibility out, but it could be out of fear. How do we know that Owen didn’t see more than he’s saying, or see something or someone he recognised as one of his own colleagues? That would give him cause and reason to lie and make up a totally invented car and suspect.
You could argue that Owen tried to point police in the direction of a work colleague of his, could even be seen as Owen hinting, indirectly telling police "The man who you want to speak with about this is_____ ______, the colleague Owen asks police to go see giving his reason as "Because he drives to work that way."

Turns out that the police threw Owen’s request back in his face and asked Owen to go interview this colleague. Owen comes back with news that this colleague stated that he didn’t drive to work that way and wasn’t working the night shift that night anyway which, considering Owen was a shift manager, he should have known this man wasn’t in work that night anyway. Maybe he was in work but told Owen to inform Police he wasn’t offering "I don’t want to get involved in that mess, tell them I was working days that week."

Again, not advocating that as "That’s what happened’, but there are numerous possibilities that could explain Owen’s lying if that is what he did in fact do.

(PS. I know you refer to this person making the claim on fb as ‘the person’ or ‘He/She, They’ etc but are you deciding to be respectful and withhold this persons name, or don’t you know this persons name because they won’t tell you? If a person claims something to be accurate and true and is adamant that they are correct but then refuse to have their name linked with what they are disclosing, I would be highly sceptical.

I know the name, but am not posting it. They are a real person who did live in Vallejo and attended Hogan High. What I don’t know is if their story is legit. It would be one thing if they didn’t come forward for whatever reason when they were young, but let’s hope later in life they decided to tell LE…especially if they were in a white Impala!

I’m not sure whether this is the same person making the claims or not.
And how legitimate they are.

mreed_ (signed in using yahoo)
It is a little awkward to reveal this story, but one of the Chevy Impalas spotted at the Lake Herman turnout at 9:00 and 10:00 on the night of December 20, 1968 belonged to my girlfriend’s parents. It was a two door, not a four door and it was a baby blue color — very light. I suppose our car could have been mistaken as white by the witnesses who passed by because it was pitch black out there, but the record mentions two separate sightings of Impala models parked at the turnout that night. I don’t think the police ever definitively concluded that there were two separate vehicles. The witnesses could have been mistaken about the time when they passed the turnout. My guess is that there was only one car parked there during those hours — our Impala. I am certain that I was parked at the Lake Herman turnout with my girlfriend sometime between 9:00 and 11:00 pm on the night of the murders. Too many years have passed to feel confident of the exact hour we arrived though. But we did not go back after we left and we certainly had no intention of returning to that turnout. What a miserable place on such a night!

The night of the 20th was spooky and extremely cold, the coldest night of the year. We had to keep the car running and the heater blowing full blast… and we still couldn’t stay warm enough. Our windows completely fogged over from our body condensation which made us feel very uneasy because we had no way of knowing if someone might walk up to our car out of the dark, exactly as happened to Farraday and Jensen. I do remember having that feeling. Of course it was unlikely that someone was out there because they would have to park nearby, and there is no other place to park. I don’t think the Zodiac could have made it down that road in the total darkness without a flashlight. We stayed at the scene of the killings between a half hour and an hour before finally deciding it was just too cold and uncomfortable. We turned the Impala around and drove back to Vallejo to look at the displays of Christmas lights in the California Meadows subdivision.

When I woke the next morning the headlines screamed about the murders at the same spot we were parked and I freaked out, called my girlfriend and told her about it. We were both very frightened and didn’t want to contact the police because our parents would hit the roof finding out that we were at the very place close to the time that Farraday and Jensen were killed. Perhaps by contacting the police we could have helped the investigators better understand what was going on during the hours before the murders. But we were certain we didn’t want to get involved. In our minds, nothing really happened while we were parked at the Lake Herman turnout that could be of help to the case. However, the blackness, the bitter cold and the total darkness did spook us. I do remember that there were at least a couple of cars that passed by during our stay and they went by relatively slowly (but not at a crawl). The occasional car passing gave us a real uneasy feeling. We both readily agreed it would be best to leave, and that probably saved our lives. I suppose it is possible the Zodiac was driving one of the cars that went by but at the time that didn’t occur to us.

During the few times we parked there (before the murders) we usually spent an hour or two enjoying the solitude that Lake Herman Road provided for young lovers. We were both seventeen at the time. I was a senior at one of the local high schools and my girl was a junior at Vallejo High. She knew Farraday. Vallejo really was much more of a small town back then. Our brush with the Zodiac was a traumatic experience for us and we kept it mostly to ourselves. Ironically my girl later unwittingly became a character of minor importance in the Zodiac story but not in any way relating to the killings.

I eventually lost touch with my girlfriend and kept the incident pretty much to myself. I suppose she could add some detail to my recollections that could be helpful, but we put the whole experience behind us and I wouldn’t know where to locate her. I never read a Zodiac book nor saw one of the movies although the case has always remained in my mind. I never really forgot how close we came. And… yes, I eventually told my story to Tom Voit several years ago . He invited me to a San Francisco screening of the movie, Zodiac but I had other commitments. I know it must seem weird to have kept it all under wraps for so many years, but remaining silent about traumatic events is a symptom of PTSD. Finally, I want to assure you that this is not an invented story. It is still real for me after 46 years.
Reply ·
· 3 · May 19 at 9:34am

from http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_kill … ejo_2.html

Elements of suspicion arise about this story’s validity.
Could anyone come up with that?
And so much written after years not coming forward.
And where was this California Meadows subdivision?
I see a Meadows Drive in Vallejo on Google Maps,
but it is not exactly where I’d expect to find a destination as suggested
by one of the other witnesses seeing vehicle matching this description
turning from LH Road along Columbus Drive, toward BRS Park.
Hmm.

We moved to California Meadows when I was around 9-years-old, and I grew up in that subdivision. California Meadows is a subdivision located off of hwy 29, behind where AGE was located–heading toward American Canyon/Napa City. During the Christmas holidays, California Meadows was popular because the subdivision transformed into Candy Cane Lane where every house was decorated for the holidays.