in the solano co sheriff’s supplemental report, page 4, it is noted that stella borges "did not observe a car travelling in either direction."

i do not recall any police officers stating whether they did or did not pass any cars, although it’s possibly in a police report that i am forgetting.

He could have passed earlier, seconds or only a few minutes before Stella Borges entered LHR, then both – the police from Benicia and Stella Borges from the West (as far as I know) – would not have seen Z passing by.

QT

He could have passed earlier, seconds or only a few minutes before Stella Borges entered LHR, then both – the police from Benicia and Stella Borges from the West (as far as I know) – would not have seen Z passing by.

QT

for as many people as were around that night, he had a really tight timeframe of six minutes to kill two people and escape (if you believe the official timeline) and really lucked out that no one saw anything. either that or the official timeline is wrong….

He could have passed earlier, seconds or only a few minutes before Stella Borges entered LHR, then both – the police from Benicia and Stella Borges from the West (as far as I know) – would not have seen Z passing by.

QT

for as many people as were around that night, he had a really tight timeframe of six minutes to kill two people and escape (if you believe the official timeline) and really lucked out that no one saw anything. either that or the official timeline is wrong….

I agree, it almost seems like something is not right.

It is possible it all happened in the 6 minutes that are unaccounted for, but how does Zodiac get so lucky all the time?

6 unaccounted minutes and he gets the chance to do everything he needs to unseen, wrong dispatch description in San Francisco, park-ranger contaminates evidence inadvertently at Lake Barryesa, print guy destroys prints at phone booth due to his nerves apparently, I mean…really???

He could have passed earlier, seconds or only a few minutes before Stella Borges entered LHR, then both – the police from Benicia and Stella Borges from the West (as far as I know) – would not have seen Z passing by.

QT

for as many people as were around that night, he had a really tight timeframe of six minutes to kill two people and escape (if you believe the official timeline) and really lucked out that no one saw anything. either that or the official timeline is wrong….

I agree, it almost seems like something is not right.

It is possible it all happened in the 6 minutes that are unaccounted for, but how does Zodiac get so lucky all the time?

6 unaccounted minutes and he gets the chance to do everything he needs to unseen, wrong dispatch description in San Francisco, park-ranger contaminates evidence inadvertently at Lake Barryesa, print guy destroys prints at phone booth due to his nerves apparently, I mean…really???

That is why I originally got suspicious of James Owen, everything hinges on his statement, and he has so many discrepancies in his statements.

A good analysis can be found here

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1081&hilit=owen+borgess&start=40

with a possible (and maximum) 6 minutes time frame for Z to escape.

QT

This will never be proven as fact in my opinion but, I think, the zodiac came from old lake Herman road to the crime scene and is driving the black car seen by the yours. I worked up a time frame for the attack that shows the time in which the yours see the black car, James Owen spotting this second car at the crime scene and Stella Medeiros finding the bodies. It works out pretty nicely I think, showing that the Zodiac, had a 6 minute window for the deed. I show the Zodiac could have been on the scene as early as 11:07 pm and leaving no later than 11:13 pm. These are truthful estimates for conversation. There is an exact time based on witness testimony but i dont have it in front of me. Stella Medeiros is leaving her home at 11:09 pm. According to her it takes her 3 to 4 minutes to reach the seen traveling casually. Rather truthful statement I believe as 2 minutes she is traveling at a rate of 51 miles per hour. Not very casual. Stella missed the Zodiac entirely in my opinion. At this point the Zodiac could still have gone in any direction but I think he had a better chance of escaping heading up sky valley or down old lake Herman than continuing on lake Herman as, Stella, is flying down lake Herman road after reaching the crime scene.

Soze

I agree with Soze.

I don’t know which direction he came from, but I think it’s a safe bet he left via the old Lake Herman Road…toward the refinery.

He could have pulled up, left his car running, got out and shot them in under a minute. And if he happened to be on foot, he could easily slip away.

I agree with Soze.

I don’t know which direction he came from, but I think it’s a safe bet he left via the old Lake Herman Road…toward the refinery.

He could have pulled up, left his car running, got out and shot them in under a minute. And if he happened to be on foot, he could easily slip away.

He couldn’t have been on foot if James Owen is being truthful since Owen claims he saw a car next to Faraday’s, and a 1/4 mile down the road, he heard the 1st shot,so no time for that car to leave and Z walk up on foot and shoot, there’s only two possibilities, that car belonged to Z or there never was a 2nd car

I meant to ask this question when I posted but forgot. I think it is probably an important question to ask in terms of time frame.

Question:

According to the police reports, Faraday was found to still be breathing but died enroute to the hospital. Has anyone checked into how long a person is likely to survive given the wounds Faraday received? Can a time frame be deduced based on how dried the blood may be, etc. Etc. Has that been explored?

Soze

I take it you’re after an estimate of how much time would have passed between the impact and the time of death? I think that would be pretty much impossible to tell based on the injury itself unless one had very specific details- but I’m no pathologist. All I know is that a bullet through the head isn’t an easy injury to estimate in terms of how long it takes for the victim to die – anything from a few seconds to…well, people can even survive a head shot. The only time estimate I’ve seen is "minutes" for Faraday, i.e. he died within minutes of being shot.

My guess would be that he must have died very shortly after the ambulance took him away from the scene.

On that note – is there something missing from the LHR police report? I can’t seem to find the report of the first reporting officers.

I take it you’re after an estimate of how much time would have passed between the impact and the time of death? I think that would be pretty much impossible to tell based on the injury itself unless one had very specific details- but I’m no pathologist. All I know is that a bullet through the head isn’t an easy injury to estimate in terms of how long it takes for the victim to die – anything from a few seconds to…well, people can even survive a head shot. The only time estimate I’ve seen is "minutes" for Faraday, i.e. he died within minutes of being shot.

My guess would be that he must have died very shortly after the ambulance took him away from the scene.

On that note – is there something missing from the LHR police report? I can’t seem to find the report of the first reporting officers.

That’s what I am after, yes. I know people have survived a head shot but getting to the hospital in time helped. Faraday was transported fairly quickly I think, or, was he? Do we actually know that? Anyway, I figured mere minutes at most – one or two but I don’t have experience in the field.

Soze

That’s what I am after, yes. I know people have survived a head shot but getting to the hospital in time helped. Faraday was transported fairly quickly I think, or, was he? Do we actually know that? Anyway, I figured mere minutes at most – one or two but I don’t have experience in the field.

Soze

It’s an interesting question. Given that the wound was fatal I too would have thought mere minutes, yes. How long passed between Z leaving the scene and Stella Borges arriving? And secondly how long passed between Borges leaving and the police arriving? I presume the ambulance arrived with the cops. Some time – if not much – would have been spent at the scene before they got DF onto a stretcher and into the ambulance too. And it’s clearly stated that he died en route to the hospital, meaning he was still alive when they left.

It would help if I could get my hands on the aforementioned report from the initial responding officers – but I can’t seem to find it. It’s not among the documents on Voigt’s site – and his LHR files amount to fifty pages.

That’s what I am after, yes. I know people have survived a head shot but getting to the hospital in time helped. Faraday was transported fairly quickly I think, or, was he? Do we actually know that? Anyway, I figured mere minutes at most – one or two but I don’t have experience in the field.

Soze

It’s an interesting question. Given that the wound was fatal I too would have thought mere minutes, yes. How long passed between Z leaving the scene and Stella Borges arriving? And secondly how long passed between Borges leaving and the police arriving? I presume the ambulance arrived with the cops. Some time – if not much – would have been spent at the scene before they got DF onto a stretcher and into the ambulance too. And it’s clearly stated that he died en route to the hospital, meaning he was still alive when they left.

It would help if I could get my hands on the aforementioned report from the initial responding officers – but I can’t seem to find it. It’s not among the documents on Voigt’s site – and his LHR files amount to fifty pages.

The 1st Officer on site was Pitta, here’s his reports