And maybe we’re at a loss to explain to why Z does the same. As I said though I’m not convinced on that but why put it in the film, where did that come from? This would be another particular similarity if found to be true. You see, it’s more compelling to me if we find the question exists much more than finding an answer. If the same question presents itself in Manalli’s writing and Zodiacs then that’s astounding. We are finding similarities on levels that I could only equate to trying to identify a piece of art that looks like a certain artist but is unsigned.

And maybe we’re at a loss to explain to why Z does the same. As I said though I’m not convinced on that but why put it in the film, where did that come from? This would be another particular similarity if found to be true. You see, it’s more compelling to me if we find the question exists much more than finding an answer. If the same question presents itself in Manalli’s writing and Zodiacs then that’s astounding. We are finding similarities on levels that I could only equate to trying to identify a piece of art that looks like a certain artist but is unsigned.

This first K is from Z(a 2 stroke,not his normal)

This next K is from Manalli(somewhat similar)

Z usually used a 3 stroke,but he gets busted using a 2 stroke, and Manalli usually used a 2 stroke, but we catch him making a 3 stroke, again, just my opinion, but when each and every person makes a letter K, its either naturally a 2 or 3 stroke, so this K stuff is odd from Z & Manalli

By the way, this is one of my favorite Manalli Vs Z writing traits:(the top CAUGHT is from Manalli & the bottom is from Z)

If you lined up 100 people and asked them to write the word, ‘caught’, I would bet my housenone of them would oddly use an odd spacing like we see in these two samples from Manalli & Zodiac. It simply is NOT common for people to use this odd spacing, yet we see it in Z & Manalli

I can tell you now that even with the material we already have I could find more matches. It’s just so much work and fatigue kicks in. Look at the progression. At every turn something showed up. The circle dots, the double dots. What other POI has those? It’s hard graft though and we have to dig. In some ways though I don’t see that as a bad thing. As I’ve already said in this thread, I don’t think Z would have presented his real identity easily and to ensure that he kept Z himself separate. Now if that even filtered down to the handwriting then we are looking at a very involved person. Very aware of every little detail and aspect.

I can’t even begin to imagine how that might equate to Fred given that he chased a student to France on some infatuation. But then every story has it’s anomalies I guess. Maybe that was his – f**k it moment? Given how it ended.

I thought the way you write is subconscious. And even when you try to hide your hand writing the way you write never changes.

I thought the way you write is subconscious. And even when you try to hide your hand writing the way you write never changes.

Yes that kinda explains it but what if you are conscious of that whilst you write? That is certainly another way to say that the form and shape remain. Those however can be altered if you are mindful of the end result. If I can think it then it’s possible but how would I come to the conclusion? Well, when you look at Zodiac’s writing he appears to be experimenting then he settles on a style. That says to me that he was in fact mindful of his written work. He wasn’t just writing willy nilly. Consider all of the things we have to unravel. The punctuation, the mistakes, the syntax. Personally I feel that this guy was messing with us.

Now I think that our interpretation of it might make it seem more impressive. That’s the unavoidable color I’m afraid. It’s almost too impressive, for me, and for now. Still the hallmarks are there in Fred’s writing, for me at least. I do think that there is a layer to Z’s own writing that we haven’t fully explained. There’s something going on there that I wish I could explain. I wish I was better but I’m not. That ‘s why we are a forum. Here’s hoping as we always do.

Can I also add?

Please , please if you are brave enough to take on analysing this guy’s handwriting, ignore everything I have posted. We need other perspectives. This is most important because whilst I may talk a good game we have to be objective and as such we need other informed opinions in this matter.

Trav.

I thought the way you write is subconscious. And even when you try to hide your hand writing the way you write never changes.

You are basically right, but certain things may show even if you do not realize it,as in the example I made a couple posts back-

You may try to alter your writing, disguise it, puposely misspell words, etc, but in the above example, maybe you wouldn’t even realize to change your spacing,which is something you do by habit

Maybe you might connect certain letters together the way that both Manalli & Z do (Th)

Maybe you might have an unusual arch in certain words that you cant hide, as Manalli & Z did:

Maybe your choice of odd words not used by many people could give you away. Here we see Manalli & Z both using a word not used by many people:

Maybe you may unusually split words like Manalli & Z both do with the words SOMETHING:

Or maybe when you write out a number,regarding an aount or a total, you write a little line in front of it as Manalli & both did:

Maybe when your in a hurry, you only halfway complete the letter w, the way manalli & Z both do:

The point of all these above examples, while you may try to change your writing or hide it, certain tell-tale things may remain.
By the way, rearding these identical writing habits and words used by both Manalli & Z, its like that old saying- once is a coincidence, twice is a pattern. We have an unmistakable pattern here, let’s face it, Manalli & Z use many of the same things in their writing, odd habits, odd words & phrases.

By the way, this is one of my favorite Manalli Vs Z writing traits:(the top CAUGHT is from Manalli & the bottom is from Z)

If you lined up 100 people and asked them to write the word, ‘caught’, I would bet my housenone of them would oddly use an odd spacing like we see in these two samples from Manalli & Zodiac. It simply is NOT common for people to use this odd spacing, yet we see it in Z & Manalli

Notice the progressive change in the letter "c." The word "police" to my eye is most similar to Manalli’s "c," particularly because there is no round ink blob at the top part of the stroke (which I assume means the point where the writer started writing the letter).

The "c" in "could" progresses to a slightly different shape plus the blob dot at the top of the stroke, however, this "c" retains the same angle of slant in the opening of the "c."

The "c" in caught is slightly different than the "c" in could" since it is larger and the opening has a different angle than leans slightly to the right.

By the way, this is one of my favorite Manalli Vs Z writing traits:(the top CAUGHT is from Manalli & the bottom is from Z)

If you lined up 100 people and asked them to write the word, ‘caught’, I would bet my housenone of them would oddly use an odd spacing like we see in these two samples from Manalli & Zodiac. It simply is NOT common for people to use this odd spacing, yet we see it in Z & Manalli

Notice the progressive change in the letter "c." The word "police" to my eye is most similar to Manalli’s "c," particularly because there is no round ink blob at the top part of the stroke (which I assume means the point where the writer started writing the letter).

The "c" in "could" progresses to a slightly different shape plus the blob dot at the top of the stroke, however, this "c" retains the same angle of slant in the opening of the "c."

The "c" in caught is slightly different than the "c" in could" since it is larger and the opening has a different angle than leans slightly to the right.

And to think you once professed to not being able to see such things. You see just fine and with insight. I’m impressed. I still have to, however get my head around what your are saying. Ugh, us humans, we can be slow at times. It all ‘feels’ interesting though, particularly because of the the c’s. They are interesting, not just in this instance but throughout all of Z’s missives.

At the risk of sounding condescending "good girl". Consistently Pat you produce posts that impress me on so many levels. I get a feeling though that this has been dampened and that’s ok. We are all in the same boat. But…as hard as it might seem. Dont’ be afraid to shine.

By the way, this is one of my favorite Manalli Vs Z writing traits:(the top CAUGHT is from Manalli & the bottom is from Z)

If you lined up 100 people and asked them to write the word, ‘caught’, I would bet my housenone of them would oddly use an odd spacing like we see in these two samples from Manalli & Zodiac. It simply is NOT common for people to use this odd spacing, yet we see it in Z & Manalli

Notice the progressive change in the letter "c." The word "police" to my eye is most similar to Manalli’s "c," particularly because there is no round ink blob at the top part of the stroke (which I assume means the point where the writer started writing the letter).

The "c" in "could" progresses to a slightly different shape plus the blob dot at the top of the stroke, however, this "c" retains the same angle of slant in the opening of the "c."

The "c" in caught is slightly different than the "c" in could" since it is larger and the opening has a different angle than leans slightly to the right.

And to think you once professed to not being able to see such things. You see just fine and with insight. I’m impressed. I still have to, however get my head around what your are saying. Ugh, us humans, we can be slow at times. It all ‘feels’ interesting though, particularly because of the the c’s. They are interesting, not just in this instance but throughout all of Z’s missives.

At the risk of sounding condescending "good girl". Consistently Pat you produce posts that impress me on so many levels. I get a feeling though that this has been dampened and that’s ok. We are all in the same boat. But…as hard as it might seem. Dont’ be afraid to shine.

Beginner’s luck, Trav. That’s all. LOL And dogs are my favorite people so I consider "good girl" a compliment (especially at my age ).

The importance of the "c’s," in my very unlearned opinion on handwriting analysis, is the progression from a "c" that resembles Manilli’s to a "c" that he might consider as disguised (meaning not in his true writing style). This would be similar to "oh my goodness, I forgot to camouflage my c" and by the third try he thinks it is disguised.

So, basically, it is a piece of data that confirms Zodiac probably tried to disguise his handwriting. It wouldn’t, to my mind, mean much of anything else except one piece of data that includes Manilli rather than excludes him.

Do you notice anything interesting in the "e" in "police?"

Maybe just coincidence, but I was re-reading Manalli’s 1963 letters, and he made a reference to the "Marin County Hills". I knew that was familiar, and then I realized, the recent release of the Zodiac questioned Doc, ‘Draftboard’ letter, contained the exact same phrase:

Maybe just coincidence, but I was re-reading Manalli’s 1963 letters, and he made a reference to the "Marin County Hills". I knew that was familiar, and then I realized, the recent release of the Zodiac questioned Doc, ‘Draftboard’ letter, contained the exact same phrase:

Has Trav analyzed the draft board letters with any of Manalli’s writings? I would be interested to see if there are an similarities.

Phil, yes, Trav has looked at the draft board letters, and doesnt think they are z

Yes, to add to what morf just posted.

I have looked at the draft board letters and to my eye they contain too many hard set habits that I don’t see in Z’s writing. I do like to keep my options open though so despite that, if someone spots something interesting enough in them I will always go back and look again. As I would with any writing. That’s what’s been so weird about Fred’s writing though, I didn’t see anything at first. No glaring red flags nor green ones.