I don’t believe that Fred Manalli was thought to have killed all of the SRHM victims. He is primarily thought to have killed Kim Allen and maybe another one of the victims. I do not subscribe to Manalli being the Zodiac killer, his MO is completely different than Zodiac’s.

The ex-con died June 9 1979 so he could have been involved in the Graham/Trimble murders.

I don’t believe that Fred Manalli was thought to have killed all of the SRHM victims. He is primarily thought to have killed Kim Allen and maybe another one of the victims. I do not subscribe to Manalli being the Zodiac killer, his MO is completely different than Zodiac’s.

The ex-con died June 9 1979 so he could have been involved in the Graham/Trimble murders.

Though the disposal site was an outlier, the ligatures in the Allen murder closely match those of Theresa Walsh and the Calistoga Jane Doe. If Manalli killed Kim Allen, then he likely killed at least those two later victims. Further, Walsh and Doe were found near where Lori Kursa was last seen so it stands to reason that he would have been involved in those as well.

There’s a lot in the SRHM series that points to multiple individuals being involved. For example, Kursa was last seen in the company of at least three men, one of whom matches the description of the curly-haired man last seen with Jeannette Kamahele. (A truck matching that of the one Jeannette was seen getting into also comes up at other points in the investigation. Fred was not known to have owned or had access to such a vehicle.) Then there’s the wildly differing MOs (at least, in those cases where a cause of death can be ascertained).

We know Fred was into S&M, at least to some degree. But what we also know is this: he didn’t really have any friends. So if that was his van on Calistoga Road, who the heck was he with?

While it does appear on a map that Walsh was found equal distance from where the Franz Valley victims were found and where Jane Doe and Kursa were found one needs to consider where Walsh was dumped to have ended up where she was found.

Mark West Creek runs towards Highway 101 from the Franz Valley Road area. It parallels and runs close to Mark West Springs Road from about Leslie Road for about a half mile and that really is the only place along that road where Walsh could have been dumped. She was found at least a couple of miles downstream. The probable dump site is much closer to Franz Valley Road than where Doe and Kursa were found on Calistoga Road.

Try looking at the area on Google street view by using Mark West Lodge as a starting point. Mark West Lodge is where Mark West Springs Road becomes Porter Creek Road and Leslie Road intersects. Franz Valley Road is off of Porter Creek Road, a couple of miles northeast of the Mark West Lodge.

That said, I do agree that Jane Doe and Theresa Walsh’s ligatures were very similar and it says as much in a July 10 1979 Press Democrat article. Kim Allen was believed to have been bound by narrow rope or wire but I do not believe that the rope or wire were found with her as it was with Doe and Walsh. A slight difference but a difference nonetheless.

That said, I do agree that Jane Doe and Theresa Walsh’s ligatures were very similar and it says as much in a July 10 1979 Press Democrat article. Kim Allen was believed to have been bound by narrow rope or wire but I do not believe that the rope or wire were found with her as it was with Doe and Walsh. A slight difference but a difference nonetheless.

That simply could have been due to a very careful offender getting sloppy later on. It happens pretty often and seems to be the case here. What REALLY flummoxes me is the strychnine evidence in the Lori Kursa murder. Was the killer(s) trying out a new mode of torture and, finding it unsatisfactory or unpredictable, returned to his ligatures in later murders? I think he may well have been.

I don’t believe that Fred Manalli was thought to have killed all of the SRHM victims. He is primarily thought to have killed Kim Allen and maybe another one of the victims. I do not subscribe to Manalli being the Zodiac killer, his MO is completely different than Zodiac’s.

The ex-con died June 9 1979 so he could have been involved in the Graham/Trimble murders.

Though the disposal site was an outlier, the ligatures in the Allen murder closely match those of Theresa Walsh and the Calistoga Jane Doe. If Manalli killed Kim Allen, then he likely killed at least those two later victims. Further, Walsh and Doe were found near where Lori Kursa was last seen so it stands to reason that he would have been involved in those as well.

There’s a lot in the SRHM series that points to multiple individuals being involved. For example, Kursa was last seen in the company of at least three men, one of whom matches the description of the curly-haired man last seen with Jeannette Kamahele. (A truck matching that of the one Jeannette was seen getting into also comes up at other points in the investigation. Fred was not known to have owned or had access to such a vehicle.) Then there’s the wildly differing MOs (at least, in those cases where a cause of death can be ascertained).

We know Fred was into S&M, at least to some degree. But what we also know is this: he didn’t really have any friends. So if that was his van on Calistoga Road, who the heck was he with?

It’s possible that he and Zodiac were the killers. I think that a man with an afro was spotted with another man getting into a van in at least a couple of the Santa Rosa murders. I might be mistaken though, but some Zodiac descriptions are that he had curly hair, so maybe he grew it out after the Stine murder and it was more like an afro later on.

I’m in Starbucks in Sebastopol today and there’s a retired cop I say hello to but normally nothing more, but today I ask him if he followed the Zodiac case all these years and if he has any theories.

The guy answers, in between sips of coffee, as casual as if he was talking about the upcoming baseball season, that yeah, the guy lived in a trailer off Bloomfield Road, but we figured it out too late and he’d passed away. He didn’t remember the name.

Bloomfield Road would mean Sebastopol, a mile from the Starbucks.

First of all, I’m wondering if the cop is mixing up a few different suspects and locations . . . but does anything ring true?

Ok correct me if I’m wrong (my memory isn’t as good as it used to be) but weren’t some of the SRHM observed getting into a van? And Manalli owned a van. Also, from what I remember his grandmother was sent to prison in Illinois, right? It had to do with abortions, I think. So the local police want to spare his family anguish regarding being a murder suspect when his grandmother was a con who spent time in prison for murder?

The guy answers, in between sips of coffee, as casual as if he was talking about the upcoming baseball season, that yeah, the guy lived in a trailer off Bloomfield Road, but we figured it out too late and he’d passed away. He didn’t remember the name.

Arthur Leigh Allen had a trailer in Santa Rosa. Very close to Sebastopol.

It would be interesting if your cop friend was referring to a different suspect living in close proximity to ALA.

My sense is this cop wasn’t inside the case and didn’t know a lot, and/or may have gotten what he did know mixed up.

Yes, Santa Rosa is close to Sebastopol but ALA lived in a trailer court on SR Avenue whereas the Bloomfield Road reference would be rural.

Haven’t heard anything about any Santa Rosa Hitchhiker materials being tested or re-tested for DNA. A result there could be very interesting re the Z case, especially since the crimes reportedly extended to San Francisco.

My sense is this cop wasn’t inside the case and didn’t know a lot, and/or may have gotten what he did know mixed up.

Yes, Santa Rosa is close to Sebastopol but ALA lived in a trailer court on SR Avenue whereas the Bloomfield Road reference would be rural.

All the more interesting if this cop was not that aware of ALA as a suspect and was also referring to another suspect living around Santa Rosa. Could point to a Team Zodiac.

My sense is this cop wasn’t inside the case and didn’t know a lot, and/or may have gotten what he did know mixed up.

Yes, Santa Rosa is close to Sebastopol but ALA lived in a trailer court on SR Avenue whereas the Bloomfield Road reference would be rural.

All the more interesting if this cop was not that aware of ALA as a suspect and was also referring to another suspect living around Santa Rosa. Could point to a Team Zodiac.

Which leads us back to Sandy Betts’ story.

Please read this article, particularly the last column where it mentions Zodiac.

The LE who Xcaliber wrote about could have known that Det. Carlstedt took Bryan Hartnell to ALA’s place of work and Bryan said ALA was not Zodiac.

To clarify I am not personally locked on ALA as a suspect, but I do find it intriguing that he lived in proximity of this other suspect.

Hi everyone I’m a new member from the uk so apologies if some of the things I’m about to type have all been covered already. I’m convinced Fred manlli was involved in the Santa Rosa hitch hiker murders and the zodiac crimes. But I don’t think he acted alone. His handwriting is almost identical to the letters sent to the papers and the bates’s (So I also think he/they killed Cheri jo), the words fred/zodiac used are uncanny, i think we can see a lot in Fred’s writing to his publisher that his mind was disturbed. I’ve seen an old newspaper article somewhere about butch carlstedt commenting on SRHM Jeanette kamahele and Kim Allen being former students of freds and pictures were found after his death of these 2 girls and they had their thumbs tied together? (Hang by your thumbs). I also think think Fred/partner practiced old Nordic religion as mentioned in his letters about collecting his slaves for his after life, traditional Nordic worship often took place in the open air and commonly involved rituals in which human sacrifices of young slave girls took place and it was believed these slaves who were killed would become the masters handmaidens in the afterlife. The zodiac used Nordic phrases in the letters too. Carlstedt also said in the article about a satanic symbol left at the scene of where 3 of the SRHM victims remains/bodies found, the symbol made from sticks and rocks represented an ancient phrase “ to carry the souls away to take them into paradise”. Another name poi im interested in is a Richard Anderson ( I think this person was also involved with Fred and also possibly shot Darlene ferrin and mike mageau,) I need to do a bit more digging on the fella but I think he committed suicide in 1979 but I would love to try and find a picture of what he looked like, did he have an Afro? Was he the the guy that said he escaped from a prison at the lake baressa attack? The limping/ shuffling along description that foulke stated after the stine murder could of been Fred (with his bad back after car accident years previously, which in his own words was causing him blackouts from low blood sugar etc) I also think the sketch from paul stines murder looks like Fred, the chin, cheekbones, windows peak, all he needed to do was add glasses from his college photos,that’s if he wasn’t already wearing them at the time or perhaps a disguise? For years I had ALA as a top suspect in the zodiac case (after reading graysmiths book) I do think he was a peadophile and maybe did some wrong doing somewhere along the way, but For Me personally Fred manalli/Richard Anderson/ maybe another were responsible for nearly all the murders and me -37 sfpd-0 was probably a fair number of the truth and then of course the ad in the paper the day after freds death was for me the final nail in the coffin that this was the work of more than 1 person. This is of course all entirely my own opinion and I may be totally crackers cheers martin

Hi Martin, you should check out the suspect "KJC" in the Top Secret suspects section. Interested in Nordic religion and he lived close to Manalli in Santa Rosa.