I am going through the thread on the old forum, all 59 pages!, and copying and pasting some of the more interesting passages from Manalli’s letters that were written to a former professor of Manalli’s at the University of Illinois. The professor was Daniel Curley. Some of this stuff is undated in the thread.

Morf Posted:

Some of his typed words….are these jokes???

"Have you read the last paragraph on the first page of the typed stuff?"

We are on the same page

A post from traveller1st:

So I noticed this guy used a James Joyce quote in his typed material as a reference I think to his own potential mental state.

Here is the line.

End here. Us then. Finn, again! Take. Bussoftlhee, mememormee! Till thousandsthee. Lps. The keys to. Given! A way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. (628.13 to 3.3)

It’s from Finnegan’s Wake. Here’s some interesting facts about how that was written.

Language and style

""riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs."—
The opening line of Finnegans Wake, which continues from the book’s unfinished closing line[168]"

Joyce invented a unique polyglot-language or idioglossia solely for the purpose of this work. This language is composed of composite words from some sixty to seventy world languages,[169] combined to form puns, or portmanteau words and phrases intended to convey several layers of meaning at once.

Sound like familiar behaviour to anyone? Seeing all those doubles caught my attention I had a look and I knew I’d find it. And I did.

"the chrism for the christmass" from Finnegan’s Wake.

Morf13 wrote:

The James Joyce Finnegan’s Wake deal is interesting in itself. Whether or not Manalli is the Zodiac it does sound like the use of this polyglot-language in Joyce’s work may have influenced Zodiac. You have made a very good connection, Traveller!

I do think that Zodiac was smarter than average, well read and exposed to the arts but still had a feral streak in him.

Zodiac was pretty fond of the word ‘SHALL‘. Finnegan’s wake uses that word 140 times by my count.

A possible message from Zodiac, found floating in a bottle, was dated FEB 2…Joyce’s Birthday…
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … n-a-bottle

And check this out:
"Finnegans Wake is based on the structure of the zodiac, the zodiac signs being derived from the nature of numbers and a corresponding geometric sequence"
here- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Finnegans-Wake/

More on Joyce:
http://www.themodernword.com/joyce/joyc … ities.html

Traveller1st wrote:

Some more from Finnegan’s Wake.

"took up a jiminy and all the lilipath ways to Woeman’s"

leaden be light, lather be dry and it be drownd

Six thirteens at Blanche de Blanche’s of 3 Behind Street and 2 Turnagain Lane. Awabeg is my callby, Magnus here’s my Max,
Wonder One’s my cipher and Seven Sisters is my nighbrood

Morf13 wrote:

James Joyce also wrote something called..’Ulysses’.

Here is an excerpt:
"On its co-operative dial glow the twelve signs of the zodiac"

Traveller1st wrote:

More from Finnegans Wake

for Jaun, by the way, was by the way of becoming

O, by the way, yes,another thing occurs to me.

(Correspondents, by the way, will keep on asking me what is the correct garnish to serve drisheens with. Tansy Sauce. Enough)

plain English for a married lady misled heaps by the way,

very pure nondescript, by the way, sometimes a palmtailed otter

Bushmillah ! Do you think for a moment? Yes, by the way. How very necessarily true! Give me fair play. When?

EDIT: more

just as every hazzy hates to having a hazbane in her noze.

was billowing across the wide expanse of our greatest park (note – there’s 3 other instances of the word billow – nothing for billowy). There are several instances of willowy though.

More cipher connections this time.

The Tragic Story of J.F. Byrne

One of the classic true stories in the history of cryptographic invention is that of J. F. Byrne.

Mr. Byrne was a close friend and fellow student (at Dublin) of James Joyce. In his work "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" Joyce modeled his character "Cranley" after Byrne.

In 1918 Byrne devised a code system that he thought amazingly simple and yet unbreakable. The "machine" used to produce his cipher (which he called his "Chaocipher") required nothing more than a cigar box and a few odds and ends.

In writing about his invention, Byrne states:

"When I first set out to discover a system for concocting an indecipherable cipher, I had it clearly in mind that such a system would and should be universally available, I envisioned, for instance, the utilization of my method and machine by business men for business communications, and by brotherhoods and social and religious institutions. I believe that my method and machine would be an invaluable asset to big religions institutions, as for example the Catholic Church with its world-wide ramifications. I had, and still have in mind, the universal use of my machine and method by husband, wife, or lover. My machine would be on hire, as typewriter machines now are, in hotels, steamships, and, maybe even on trains and airlines, available for anyone anywhere and at any time. And I believe, too, the time will come—and come soon—when my system will be used in the publication of pamphlets and books written in cipher with will be unreadable except by those who are specially initiated."

Unfortunately, no one of importance took his machine seriously. He demonstrated it to the head cryptanalysts of the US Signal Corps, but was rejected.

His system was also rejected by the State Department, the Department of the Navy, and AT&T.

Byrne did not, however, give up. He wrote and published a small booklet in which he enciphered known texts in his Chaocipher, and defied the world to break it. Later Byrne published his autobiography, in which he included a lengthy message in his Chaocipher. He offered to pay $5000 to anyone who could correctly break his cipher. He sent copies to the American Cryptogram Association, the New York Cipher Society, and to Norbert Wiener (father of cybernetics), and to other believers in the capabilities of the electronic calculating machines.

Unfortunately, no one ever claimed the prize, and Byrne died a few years later, taking his secret to the grave.

If an autobiography detailing the author’s memories of James Joyce seems like a strange place to find an uncracked cipher, that’s because it is. J.F. Byrne inserted his cryptosystem challenge into the book “Silent Years”, offering $5,000 to whoever solved it. At least three people know how Byrne’s Chaocipher – a machine small enough to fit into a cigar box used to encrypt the message – actually works, but no one has ever solved the code.

This has been solved BTW since 2010.

In May 2010 the Byrne family donated all Chaocipher-related papers and artifacts[3] to the National Cryptologic Museum in Ft. Meade, Maryland, USA. This led to the disclosure of the Chaocipher algorithm.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaocipher

Here’s a detailed PDF of how it works.

http://www.mountainvistasoft.com/chaoci … orithm.pdf

and some more – whole site this time.

http://www.mountainvistasoft.com/chaocipher/

I’m looking at few things at once and I keep finding things because all these things seem to overlap. Another once from Finnegans Wake

A bone, a pebble, a ramskin; chip them,
chap them, cut them up allways;

taken in giving the saloot, band your hands going in, bind your heads coming out, and remoltked to
herselp in her serf’s alown, a weerpovy willowy dreevy drawly and the patter of
so familiars, farabroads and behomeans, as she shure sknows, boof for a booby,
boo:

Schottenly there was a hellfire club kicked out through the wasistas of
Thereswhere.

And the chicks picked their teeths and the dombkey he begay began. You can ask
your ass if he believes it.

And so like that former son of a kish who went up
and out to found his farmer’s ashes we come down home gently on our own
turnedabout asses to meet Margareen.

Hello! Tittit! Tell your title?

he plunged both of his newly anointed hands

Arise, Land-under-Wave!

Not true what chronicles is bringing his portemanteau priamed full potato wards.

Tip. And it is surely a lesser ignorance to write a word with every consonant too few than to add all too many. The end?
Say it with missiles then and thus arabesque the page. You have your cup of scalding Souchong, your taper’s waxen drop,
your cat’s paw, the clove or coffinnail you chewed or champed as you worded it, your lark in clear air. So why, pray, sign anything
as long as every word, letter, penstroke, paperspace is a perfect signature of its own?

tell that old frankay boyuk to bellows upthe tombucky in his tumtum argan and give us a gust of his gushy old. Goof!

Note
his sleek hair, so elegant, tableau vivant. He vows her to be his own honeylamb,
swears they will be papa pals, by Sam, and share good times way down west in a
guaranteed happy lovenest when May moon she shines and they twit twinkle all the
night, combing the comet’s tail up right and shooting popguns at the stars.

that royal pair in
their palace of quicken boughs hight The Goat ant Compasses (‘phone number
17:69, if you want to know 4)

Like pudging a spoon fist of sugans into a sotspot of choucolout. the
virtuoser prays, olorum What the D.V. would I to that for? That’s a goosey’s
ganswer you’re for giving me, he is told, what the Deva would you do that for? 1
Now, sknow royol road to Puddlin, take your mut for a first beginning, big to
bog, back to bach. Anny liffle mud which cometh out of Mam will doob, I guess.
A.I. Amnium instar. And to find a locus for an alp get a howlth on her bayrings
as a prisme O and for a second O unbox your compasses. I cain but are you able?
Amicably nod. Gu it! So let’s seth off betwain us. Prompty? Mux your pistany at
a point of the coastmap to be called a but pronounced olfa. There’s the isle of
Mun, ah! O! Tis just. Bene! Now, whole in applepine odrer

I see now. We move in the beast circuls. Grimbarb and pancercrucer! You took
the words out of my mouth. A child’s dread for a dragon vicefather. Hillcloud
encompass us!

Bully, his Ballade Imaginaire which was to be dubbed Wine, Woman and Waterclocks, or How a
Guy Finks and Fawkes When He Is Going Batty, by Maistre Sheames de la Plume,
some most dreadful stuff in a murderous mirrorhand)

I am going through the thread on the old forum, all 59 pages!, and copying and pasting some of the more interesting passages from Manalli’s letters that were written to a former professor of Manalli’s at the University of Illinois. The professor was Daniel Curley. Some of this stuff is undated in the thread.

Morf Posted:

Some of his typed words….are these jokes???

"Have you read the last paragraph on the first page of the typed stuff?"

We are on the same page

This stuff is really interesting. Is Manalli just being dramatic in writing here, or does he truly believe what he is writing to be true?

That is probably enough of the James Joyce and Finnigan’s Wake stuff, you probably get the picture by now.

Whether you believe Manalli was Zodiac or not Joyce’s work makes an interesting comparison to the Zodiac letters. I will leave Joyce for now with a post from Duckking.

Duckking2001 wrote:

Joyce purposely tried to use as many words as possible in Finnegan’s Wake. He literally just copied from the dictionary and it’s boasted that the work contains every word in the English language.

I don’t know if Joyce was common high school reading at the time, I wouldn’t think so because he was unpopular in America in the 30’s and 40’s. By the 60’s though, I think you would have college students reading his work, especially English and literature students. Maybe that’s something there. He was also a notorious libertine, and maybe that could have appealed to the "free love" hippies of the time.

Campbell and other Joyce scholars have pointed out his influence from Dante, and Fin’s wake is a sort of allegory to Purgatorio. Although Joyce’s version is based on his study of Jung’s archetypes and the themes of resurrection and his own Catholic upbringing of redemption; I don’t think it was inline with Z’s "slaves in paradice" (maybe a Dante reference?) it could easily appeal to someone who digged pseudo-religious iconography and didn’t really grasp the real philosophical meaning of the work.

To me that really fits the personality of Zodiac as the wannabe who was desperately trying to sound like he was a part of the intelligentsia, when he was just an underachiever with a victim complex.

That is probably enough of the James Joyce and Finnigan’s Wake stuff, you probably get the picture by now.

Whether you believe Manalli was Zodiac or not Joyce’s work makes an interesting comparison to the Zodiac letters. I will leave Joyce for now with a post from Duckking.

Duckking2001 wrote:

Joyce purposely tried to use as many words as possible in Finnegan’s Wake. He literally just copied from the dictionary and it’s boasted that the work contains every word in the English language.

I don’t know if Joyce was common high school reading at the time, I wouldn’t think so because he was unpopular in America in the 30’s and 40’s. By the 60’s though, I think you would have college students reading his work, especially English and literature students. Maybe that’s something there. He was also a notorious libertine, and maybe that could have appealed to the "free love" hippies of the time.

Campbell and other Joyce scholars have pointed out his influence from Dante, and Fin’s wake is a sort of allegory to Purgatorio. Although Joyce’s version is based on his study of Jung’s archetypes and the themes of resurrection and his own Catholic upbringing of redemption; I don’t think it was inline with Z’s "slaves in paradice" (maybe a Dante reference?) it could easily appeal to someone who digged pseudo-religious iconography and didn’t really grasp the real philosophical meaning of the work.

To me that really fits the personality of Zodiac as the wannabe who was desperately trying to sound like he was a part of the intelligentsia, when he was just an underachiever with a victim complex.

You are right, whether or not Manalli was Z, Z seems to have used the spelling errors from Joyce’s work. I cant see that many of the same misspelled words,with the same exact spelling errors, being a coincidence

A passage in one of Manalli’s letters to Curley tells of him going to see the movie "I Am Curious (Yellow)". As with the James Joyce material, this movie could be applied to anyone who was Zodiac. Trav did a great job of putting together the applicable parts of the movie after watching it.

Traveller1st wrote:

So what you might ask does Trav do when he’s not staring at the letters of dead people for hours on end? Why naturally Trav watches films that were once watched by dead people. Specifically the film Manalli mentioned in his letter dated Aug 27th 1969. "I am curious (yellow)".

You can read about it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Curious_(Yellow )

So …. Well, I probably already biased myself given the date of the mention and yes I was looking out for anything Berryessa-ish. You’ll have allow me that because there was no other real motivation for sitting through 2 hours of Swedish Art-Noir with no subtitles. Actually I’m probably going to get the subs and go through it again just to be thorough.

I’ve tried to be objective and not get to carried away tuning everything into some hidden zodiac thing. The only thing that kinda jumped out at me was the white convertable, an MG. It seemed to feature a reasonable amount in the film. There’s also a scene shot at a cabin in the woods, where Lena, the main character is trying yoga poses from a book and one of them is the hogtied position.
The guy with the convertible shows up after this and after initially being threatened with a shot gun, he and Lena make love and lie naked in each others arms under a tree. They then drive to a lake, where after some sort of argument in Swedish, they end up doing it in the water. Just prior to that the guy is washing his car which is pulled off the road beside the lake and he hunkered down washing the door. Looks like what you imagine it looks like. A guy, hunkered down beside the door of a white convertible with a black top parked just off the road.

After this Lena has a dream where she ties a bunch of men to a tree. Convertible guy turns up, she shots him with the shotgun and cuts his you-know-what off.

Throughout the whole there’s things posted on telegraph poles and written in Swedish. Oh and the K is a Zodiac 3-stroke. Lena has chalkboard which features heavily in the film with numbers on it that are constantly rising. So there’s white convertible, hand writing, lake, murder, rope, tree, young couple, girl is blonde, guy wears sunglasses. you get the idea.

Another bit I suppose is more subjective, in a scene nearing the end, Lena has another freak out in Swedish, wrecks her room, takes two daggers that are on her door and holding one in each hand, she kisses each one in turn before plunging them into the eyes of a portrait of Franco Francisco.

So yeah, theres all the nice keywords there, murder, knife, gun etc etc bla bla.

To be honest I’d really hoped for a hood.

Then something unexpected happened. A banjo serenader. It’s another scene near the very end. Lena and convertible guy are in what looks like an old hospital and they are both in separate room getting bathed and scrubbed then oil poured over them. It cuts occasionally to shots of the film crew and suddenly one of them is just sitting there and serenading everyone with a banjo.

The other film was "The Pawnbroker" starring Rod Steiger. Manalli mentions seeing this in a 1965 letter. The thing that struck me about this was the lake thing seemed to feature quite a bit and again it was in flash backs (or dreams). the flash backs featured him and his family having a picnic, under a tree, by a lake. You see it right at the start of the film and it last up until the point where all the family fun turns to fear but you don’t see what it is that’s alarmed them.

In the end you do and as they are looking towards the road, a motorcycle comes into view from behind a tree near them and it has three nazi soldiers in it and they get out, approach the fence and point their guns at the famliy under the tree.

Nice taste in films this guy had.

Here’s some screen grabs might illustrate better.

Ok last one for tonight or rather this morning.

The last scene in I am Curious Yellow involves Lena returning a "set of keys" to the director that was filming them and then she gets in the lift with convertible guy.

The credits roll.

Then the very last image you see is "one of those nice butons" on a cap.

Morf13 wrote:

The title of the weird film ‘I am Curious’ just sank into my head. Zodiac wrote ‘I am mildy CEROUS’…obviously, he meant, CURIOUS.
‘

Trav you watched I AM CURIOUS…YELLOW. Did you alos watch the companion sequal/prequel ‘I AM CURIOUS..BLUE’?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Curious_(Blue )

Wonder if ‘I Am Curious’ was showing anywhere in the Bay Area at the time, and if so, where.

In the wiki link, it states that the film was originally only showing in a few theaters across the county (in the north east)because of the sexual material being considered obscene. It got alot of word of mouth, and publicity for these reasons, which made for a promising profit, so eventually, it WAS shown nation wide.

This film DID play in the bay area summer of 69. Here’s an article from the June 69 Fremont Argus:

And this ad for the movie appeared in the 8/13/69 Oakland Tribune:

It was showing at the Fox in Oakland.

Luke68 wrote:

I’ll caveat this post first by saying it’s a little bit of a stretch. Anyway, here goes…

April 20, 1970, My name is… letter:

I am mildly cerous…

Cerous in this context obviously means ‘curious’.

Cerous however is an actual word meaning:

Of, relating to, or containing cerium, especially with valence 3.

Cerium III is actually white or colorless whilst cerium IV is YELLOW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerium

And also, cerium IV is a WEAK base. Weak being a synonym for MILD.

So in Zodiac’s sentence we can actually obtain the full title of the film, I am Curious (Yellow).

I am MILDLY CURIOUS

Morf13 wrote:

Manalli using one of Zodiac’s favorite words, SHALL

One more for the collection from Manalli-

Morf13 wrote:

Here, Manalli mentions writings from DANTE (Dantes Inferno). I know that Dante has been brought up before regarding Zodiac-

Ahhhhh don’t even have to explain these anymore lol.

Zodiac & Manalli comparisons again-

WOW!

In a letter dated July 31…(think its 1970"

Manalli writes…..

"GOD SAVE ME- CATCH ME BEFORE I KILL MORE"

I had to a double take. Again,I will post that tonight unless Seagull cares to do it sooner.

Traveller1st wrote:

Looking at it in context it may be what he suggests his painting might mean, as in what you might interpret from looking at it.

Morf13 wrote:

Some more misc. Manalli quotes that may be of interest. These all have to do with his mental & physical shape and conditions as reported by him.

Trav asked, could any of these medical issues make Manalli walk a bit weird? Also, regarding his ‘fainting spells’, could they be some sort of black outs?

Morf13 wrote:

This post will contain all of Manallis threats, violent statements, or his discussion of violent acts:

Best for last: