For my introduction post I worked no less than three hours on something in the Notes IPad program and got to the last line and poof…it vanished. So forgive me for this poor second rendition. I recently had a kidney transplant and my stamina is not what it once was. I will attempt to convey my feelings in list form this time and make every effort in an attempt at brevity. First, I’ve followed the case for years off and on. Not an expert…not a novice. Read Graysmith’s Z Unmasked. Have read the contempt many seem to have for him. I know of the inaccuracies or downright falsehoods in his work.Was lucky enough to listen to the Generation Why interview…was that morf? Have not read any other books on the matter because of the apparent bogus nature of most. Any suggestions appreciated. Have been reading here and other like forums and am very familiar with all the major/minor suspects. I guess Ross Sullivan is still hot at the moment. Morf and many of you deserve much credit for all the research. This sort of dedication is to be commended.
I still can’t shake ALA from the top of my list. Below is a list of things I "think" I know, questions and comments:
1. Regarding ALA what I think are facts…if not correct me. We have no DNA, no prints, no conclusive handwriting match, His brain fluid DNA hasn’t been matched anything in this case. The search warrants served on Allen produced bomb making material, sex toys, but little else absolutely linking him with the crime.
2. Cheney – if truthful ALA is the man. Cheney have motive to lie? ALA molest or attempted to molest daughter? If true there is the motive to lie. DC’s story changed over the years which brings more suspicion. Later said ALA had him lick stamps and fingerprint in paraphine. What about Panzarella? Didn’t his story back up many of Cheney’s claims? One or both complicit? Maybe they’re telling the truth? Who knows?
3. Other things I "think" I understand. Other suspects RS and EVB match the Z composite. A composite I never really could bring myself to trust. Is it totally based on the Stine reports from the witness children and Fouke? Hand writing from RS and a few others not conclusive, but interesting. RS butter incident. Let me break extremely hard right here and say the…deep real estate… classified ad following Manelli’s accident transcends noteworthy and rockets straight to WTF territory!!!
Other suspects can’t be written off due to the great research done here and other previously known factors including geographical proximity to crime scenes…among many other things.
4. DNA or lack thereof specifics. Is it confirmed that human DNA was successfully lifted from the letters/stamps understanding that none matched Allen? I know it’s been stated, but confirmed? What if multiple ot mixed DNA is on an item? What about DNA purity or degradation? Back in that era after dusted for prints how many hands has this stuff passed through over the decades? Probably a worthless observation, but my grandmother hated the taste of glue and always used a wet rag on stamps and envelopes. Never licked them. Still doesn’t do anything to explain the DNA found on the material, but makes the mind run wild with possibilities.Again, are we all assuming the the found DNA is absolute in testability…so to speak? Any way to know for sure?
We have all these things which are now a matter of public record. All the words written. All the books, YouTube stuff and beyond. Because of the massive passage of time, most directly involved long dead, evidence lost…has this case become unsolvable? At this point what would it take or what would one consider legit enough to make an absolute finding of guilt?
I still consider ALA the "best of the worst" choice for the actor. Too many roads lead, if not directly to, very close to him. I am open to suggestions. Even after reading extensively about all the other suspects worthy of suspicion, In my mind, with a gun to my head, I would have to name him. Not totally comfortable in doing that. Again…the best of the worst choice for me. The word "circumstantial" shouldn’t trumph the word "conclusive" regarding a crime evidence, but in this case it’s likely all we will ever have. Too many things lost to time.
Not enough energy to discuss the multitude of overall known evidence down to minutiae, victems (just kidding) victims, crime scenes, investigation inadequecies of that era and the billion other things about this case. Thanks for tolerating another newbie beating this 46/47 year old dead horse into vapor. Most here are light years ahead of people like me.
ALA too bulky to fit the description of the PH killer. I think some of the stuff attributed to him was proven to be made up by Graysmith. But who knows? LE definitely thought they didn’t have enough to make the case. The mafia guy supposedly made up his story to get out of prison, and Cheney was maybe paid off with cash to chat about ALA.
All of your points are essentially correct.
If Cheney’s statement was 100% true, that Allen told him prior to the crimes that he would commit murders and call himself the Zodiac, then he must be the killer, yes…but we can’t confirm that statement to be true. For whatever reason Cheney recounted the story 2 years later, not at the time that it allegedly occurred.
If Allen told Cheney everything word for word, but he said it after the murders had already occurred, then that proves nothing.
As for Mr. Panzarella, he did corroborate Cheney’s story, but it was at Cheney’s behest and he did not independently or separately testify that information. My recollection is that he was only present for the initial interview and didn’t continue to provide further interviews and comments on the subject, as Cheney did. If his statements different in some way from Cheney’s, I’m not sure about from memory. I’d have to look at the transcripts.
For the DNA, if we have a reliable and testable sample, the short answer is "we don’t know." For a longer answer you should look up some of the topics on the subject. I don’t feel that I can sufficiently sum up the discussions here.
Sorry for my ignorance of this, but who would have paid off Cheney and why? I know the answer probably would be the real Zodiac?
the mafia dude that was on the movie with Cheney :HIS NAME WAS ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN. It’s rumored Ralph made up that story to give to the cops to get out of prison.
Ralph wasn’t mafia, but I have no doubt he was full of it and used the ALA/Zodiac story.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Sorry for my ignorance of this, but who would have paid off Cheney and why? I know the answer probably would be the real Zodiac?
This is ridiculous. Is this even serious? What makes you think that he was paid off? I’m sure that he believed everything he said, it’s just that he probably exaggerated his recollections. Even if it’s not true, once people become convinced of something they have a tendency to look back on events and remember them in a way that reinforces that idea. Especially if they are hazy and can’t remember the exact details.
Cheney may have had a reason to cast suspicion on ALA,I know this has been debated.
There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
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Yes, my friend, I honestly and really can’t see why Cheney would make up a false story about ALA being the Z unless SOMEBODY (I don’t know who) gave him some money. He was either telling the truth, or he was lying, or he was screwed up mentally in some way (ie. delusional.) I don’t go along with the possibility that his memory was playing tricks on him. That’s another way of saying he had Alzheimer’s. (See screwed up mentally above.) Now it’s possible that whatever they gave him to be on those movies might have been enough. I don’t know what that amount was. But yeah, he was either telling the truth, or he was lying. There’s no evidence that I know of that he was mentally screwed up.
Could just be Allen got a kick out of bullshitting people and got off on the tease.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
I don’t buy that somebody would tease about being a murderer, just for the fun of it. Then you are saying that ALA was delusional. A rational person would find some other way of having fun, rather than confessing to murder.
I don’t think he thought it was "fun"…he just liked the attention it gave him. I don’t think one has to be delusional to do that.
Mix a little bit of ALA’s pre-Zodiac stories, and a little bit of Cheney’s stories being exaggerated and I think there is a simple explanation.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
A
I don’t think he thought it was "fun"…he just liked the attention it gave him. I don’t think one has to be delusional to do that.
Mix a little bit of ALA’s pre-Zodiac stories, and a little bit of Cheney’s stories being exaggerated and I think there is a simple explanation.
Agreed. You certainly don’t have to be delusional in order to mess with people’s heads for kicks. All you need is a certain kind of personality, and ALA seems to have had just that.
Cheney may have been genuinely convinced that ALA was Zodiac. What looks like the weakest part of his story (the Johns scenario, for instance) could have been "well meaning" lies, in the sense that he added to whatever stories ALA actually had told him (morbid fantasies about hunting people, TMDG style) in order to incriminate a man he genuinely believed was crazy and dangerous.
Many possibilites there. People lie for all sorts of reasons.
