Wouldn’t Z call out a copycat? I would think so.

He did in the 340 cipher, "that wasn’t me on the TV show".

You’re right! I forgot about that. Good catch.

Another reason Kathleen John’s story is discounted is that her recollection of the events in press interviews would vary – sometimes becoming more dramatic on retelling.
It is important to note that the very initial statement about this incident was made to an officer who was writing things down things as Kathleen Johns explained them, and then writing his report from notes. It was not at all a formal interview by a detective.

Another reason Kathleen John’s story is discounted is that her recollection of the events in press interviews would vary – sometimes becoming more dramatic on retelling.
It is important to note that the very initial statement about this incident was made to an officer who was writing things down things as Kathleen Johns explained them, and then writing his report from notes. It was not at all a formal interview by a detective.

Every witness changes their story the more the story is told. That is a fundamental facet of eyewitness testimony and memory in general. The question is how much has her story changed. It hasn’t changed that much. Some of the more egregious variations came from Graysmith, who was not even a real journalist. I have no idea whether she actually encountered Zodiac or not. However, two facts that stick out to me that demonstrate she might very be a Zodiac victim: 1) the Halloween Card’s reference to "By Fire" makes no sense whatsoever without Kathleen Johns; 2) she maintained that she received a Halloween Card similar to Zodiac’s, which she gave to Paul Avery.

The biggest reason, besides the various versions of her story, that most people reject her as a Zodiac victim is that he didn’t kill her quickly. But, Zodiac, as Tom Voigt has pointed out many times, was probably more of a terrorist than a serial killer…meaning that he really cared more about terrorizing the public at large than killing individual victims. Her story was frightening, especially to women with kids, because Zodiac demonstrated exactly how easy it was to abduct someone, even a mother with her children. He also demonstrated that no one can rely on a Good Samaritan, which makes the world a very bleak place.

When I look at the communication from Z (which I do think it was him writing it), regarding the Kathleen Johns incident, I see the Zodiac as being something of a smartass. Smartass probably isn’t the right word. It’s like he sees this accusation and says "ok. I have now picked up a woman and took her for a ride. How interesting." Honestly, I don’t think the Zodiac actually picked up Kathleen Johns. The whole tire thing is not his style. This of course assuming that Kathleen Johns experienced what she experienced.

Every witness changes their story the more the story is told.

Agreed. I think the variations in Kathleen Johns’ re-tellings are normal for a traumatized witness drawing out memories, especially after passage of time.
Also, many of those recountings were made for press reporters who do not use the same interview techniques as Law Enforcement. Press wants juicy copy to print.
I think Kathleen Johns indeed encountered the Zodiac.

In my opinion, the Zodiac abducted her. She picked the man in the Paul Stine sketch as her abductor, and the Zodiac admitted that he did it. There’s no reason to believe he was lying. Of course, people will say it wasn’t his MO but the same can be said about the Lake Berryessa and the Paul Stine murders.

…a definitive Z victim? First of all I don’t understand why she isn’t listed as such..ok, she had survived but Z confessed to such an attack as well did he burn her car, making this attack sort of identifyable (any other burning car incidents with woman+baby abducted?). Then Kathleen had identified Z on the police station, hysterically, too.

Another question not asked yet: Z confessed to burning her car at the place where he had found Kathleen.

http://zodiackiller.com/JohnsLetter.html
(100% super Z writing, including referring to buttons etc.)

Why did he drive back to burn her car (!) at the place where he had found her? I mean this is ridiculous, isn’t it? At that incident, btw., Z is described as being thirty years old (making him 24 at CJB), with rather dark hair and glasses, wearing a dark ski jacket. Then, in four letters Z uses the ‘buttons’ issue..why?

http://zodiackiller.com/JohnsReport.html

QT

We’ve discussed this a lot in other posts In the KJ threads.

While yes, Zodiac said he did it, he offered nothing of proof outside of what was written word for word in the newspaper. While KJ said the guy looked like the man in the wanted poster, why would Zodiac "cop up" and say "yah, yah…that was me alright…she saw me up close and personal, got a good look at my car, the way I spoke, the scars on my face, my voice…and she got away!…Yep..that was me alright…be on the lookout for someone who looks JUST like she described!"

Why would he "cop out"? Because that’s what he did. He took risks and liked taking credit for his crimes. Is there any evidence of him taking credit for murders he didn’t commit?

Eh…KJ was free advertising for him. Got him in the news and he didn’t have to do a thing, but copy a newspaper report.

Where’s the stuff only he and LE would know? Wasn’t there.

Riverside…"activity". He’s not claiming murder.

The problem is Johns picked the man in the Paul Stine sketch. What a coincidence that her attempted abductor looked exactly like the Zodiac. What a coincidence that both of these look-alikes were criminals operating in the same general area. I think the simple conclusion is better: the Zodiac kidnapped Johns, she identified him as her abductor, and the Zodiac admitted to it.

You all bring up a lot of good points. Too many to settle on one so I’ll simply say again that I think, pardon if I offend, that the KJ incident was for attention – either from her husband, family, or for some Z. notoriety. I also think The Z. accepted blame for crimes he didn’t commit, i.e. his increasing score, Riverside, and "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38.", for free publicity and to get LE looking in several directions for him…and then he "disappears" claiming to "have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about" him.

Is there any evidence that Zodiac ever claimed responsibility for murders he didn’t commit? Is there any evidence that Johns lied?

It does seem rather convenient doesn’t it. It’s like me going out and getting robbed and gunpoint and beaten up by the assailant, only to stagger into the Police Recpetion and before I say anything else point and shout "THAT’S HIM ON THE POSTER THERE, HE DID IT, THE ONE WHO THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LOOKING FOR AND IS THE MOST NOTORIOUS, YES THAT ONE THERE. Kathy was insistent! "

"NOT THE ONE WIT THE LONG SCRAGGLY HAIR AND WHO’S WANTED FOR THE AVERAGE CRIME OF GRANT THEFT, NO NOT HIM, IT’S THE POSTER AND COMPOSITE NEXT TO IT. THE ONE THAT SAYS "MOST WANTED, DANGEROUS, AND ‘ZODIAC KILLER’ IN HUGE BOLD LETTERS. THATS THE ONE WHO TRIED ABDUCTED ME BEFORE FORGETTING HOW TO DRIVE AND HEADING STRIGHT INTO A ONE WAY LANE OF OMCOMING TRAFFIC!

Maybe the abductor had a wanted Zodiac paper clued to his face. We are dealing with a Criminal mastermind here lets remember!

Not really. She lived in the general area of the Zodiac and saw a poster of him. Nothing convenient about it.

It does seem rather convenient doesn’t it. It’s like me going out and getting robbed and gunpoint and beaten up by the assailant, only to stagger into the Police Recpetion and before I say anything else point and shout "THAT’S HIM ON THE POSTER THERE, HE DID IT, THE ONE WHO THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LOOKING FOR AND IS THE MOST NOTORIOUS, YES THAT ONE THERE. Kathy was insistent! "

"NOT THE ONE WIT THE LONG SCRAGGLY HAIR AND WHO’S WANTED FOR THE AVERAGE CRIME OF GRANT THEFT, NO NOT HIM, IT’S THE POSTER AND COMPOSITE NEXT TO IT. THE ONE THAT SAYS "MOST WANTED, DANGEROUS, AND ‘ZODIAC KILLER’ IN HUGE BOLD LETTERS. THATS THE ONE WHO TRIED ABDUCTED ME BEFORE FORGETTING HOW TO DRIVE AND HEADING STRIGHT INTO A ONE WAY LANE OF OMCOMING TRAFFIC!

Maybe the abductor had a wanted Zodiac paper clued to his face. We are dealing with a Criminal mastermind here lets remember!

Right? It’s not like The Z. burned anybody’s car at LHR, BRS, LB, or SF. Who knows, maybe she just wanted another car?

To be far, it’s not like the Zodiac stabbed his victims at LHR, BRS, AND SF. It’s not like he robbed his victims except Paul Stine. The zodiac didn’t have one way he committed his crimes.

You all bring up a lot of good points. Too many to settle on one so I’ll simply say again that I think, pardon if I offend, that the KJ incident was for attention – either from her husband, family, or for some Z. notoriety. I also think The Z. accepted blame for crimes he didn’t commit, i.e. his increasing score, Riverside, and "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38.", for free publicity and to get LE looking in several directions for him…and then he "disappears" claiming to "have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about" him.

Is there any evidence that Zodiac ever claimed responsibility for murders he didn’t commit? Is there any evidence that Johns lied?

And it’s also interesting that John’s kidnapping case was never solved. There are not other similar incidents in that area after Johns, which would indicate an unidentified serial offender. If Zodiac takes credit for the crimes of others, he’s really good a picking the cases that just happen to never get solved.

You all bring up a lot of good points. Too many to settle on one so I’ll simply say again that I think, pardon if I offend, that the KJ incident was for attention – either from her husband, family, or for some Z. notoriety. I also think The Z. accepted blame for crimes he didn’t commit, i.e. his increasing score, Riverside, and "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38.", for free publicity and to get LE looking in several directions for him…and then he "disappears" claiming to "have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about" him.

Is there any evidence that Zodiac ever claimed responsibility for murders he didn’t commit? Is there any evidence that Johns lied?

And it’s also interesting that John’s kidnapping case was never solved. There are not other similar incidents in that area after Johns, which would indicate an unidentified serial offender. If Zodiac takes credit for the crimes of others, he’s really good a picking the cases that just happen to never get solved.

Is it certain Johns was kidnapped at all?

Kathleen Johns associates this good Samaritan vehicle tampering guy who gave her the creeps with a composite of the Zodiac.

Cheri Jo Bates killer is a vehicle tampering guy. The Bates case is associated with the Zodiac.

It’s a hell of guess for Johns to pair up vehicle tampering guy with Zodiac.

The bit I like most about her story is that the guy’s glasses are held by an elastic strap going around the back.

Is it certain Johns was kidnapped at all?

Do you think that a pregnant woman with an infant child would just stage the whole event? I think she got into a car and the driver refused to let her go until she had to jump out. I’m not sure that the kidnapper was Zodiac. I don’t think she made the whole encounter up. It’s hard to say whether she encountered Zodiac or not. Again, Zodiac seems to only be able to take credit for crimes that never get solved. So, how he is so prescient is beyond me. I think the simplest explanation is that he is telling the truth.