All the prints I ever saw from Stine’s cab looked like a blob to me, of course I’m looking at the copies, and not the originals. I’m sure the phone booth probably produced tons of prints, but if you can’t ID one to a suspicious character, or link it directly to cab, what have you got?

They have Larry’s prints Chappie.

The prints on the window were apparently too messed up to say they matched. The prints on the window were not a perfect set like arrest record prints would be.

Ok Tahoe, I am going to now ask you to do exactly what I know you would ask me to do if I had just made a bold statement as factual…. Show me evidence of this claim please?

If you can say you know they have Larry’s prints, then you must know this fact by some official means that you can show evidence for?

Again T, I really am not trying to be argumentative, nor am I in any way intending to come across as arrogant by demanding ‘show me proof’, and as I said, I am totally willing to accept that you are correct, because I am not saying they certainly didn’t have them, just that it appears that way due to a lack of comparison report or any other official document showing "KANE, LAWRENCE: Prints: Finger’s – A B C D E. Compared with UnSub index print. Result: Negative."

The thing is…with this case, there are all sorts of documents we have not been privy to. Can you imagine all the other reports that must be out there on Paul Stine?

Larry Kane was arrested and that photo exists. They got handwriting samples. They know of his drivers licenses. I’m not sure why it is hard to believe his fingerprints have been obtained.

Like I mentioned before, I expect you would want to see them with your own eyes, but they were provided to me in confidence and therefore, I will not share them. Until you see them, I expect you and others to continue to question their existence.

Well it now settled after we can view his arrest record which lists the City & State of arrest as "Contributor of Fingerprints." They had his prints on file taken from many LE agencies in many states, but did so under many of his assumed names. But I have to point out that they got a sample of Kane’s handwriting yes, after they had gone to his residence to ask him a few questions regarding his time in SF and the Zodiac killings. I don’t put to much stock or place to much emphasis on the handwriting anyway and that is for Kane, Marshall, Gaik, all suspects and in fact, I think Marshalls is the closest to Z’s of the examples I have seen. But lately I seem to be more and more open minded to the idea that more than one person was behind this ‘Zodiac front.’ No real reason why, nor evidence to support. But what was the number of POI’s & Suspects the Law said they had looked at in the Z case? 2,500 wasn’t it? I mean of those suspects who did supply a handwriting sample, none obviously match or was even significantly similar to warrant further investigation. No one single person has ever come forward to my knowledge claiming the think the recognise that handwriting as that of their Brother, Father, Uncle etc. And on the old site, I did post a thread after I noticed odd and inconsistent marks within Zodiac printing of letters of the alphabet. I think I’ll re-post that topic here actually at this site. In a nut shell, I think the printing is forced and not the natural freehand of whoever it is that is holding the pen.

OK, I’ve been looking at things other than this thread, but on the general subject of Kane:

1. Kathleen Johns noticed acne scars, gum wrappers on the floor…but she never noticed his facial paralysis? She was with this guy for two hours.

2. If Kane had such a difficult time walking, how did he manage to foot it all over Lake Berryessa that day? Why no mention of Zodiac awkwardly shuffling towards Bryan and Cecelia? Staggering back to his car, dragging one leg, after shooting Mike and Darlene?

(I’m not convinced Z had a limp. Wouldn’t the teens have noticed if he had limped away from the taxi? They only report that he departed the scene in a casual manner — no "shuffling gait." Unless I’m forgetting something.)

But lately I seem to be more and more open minded to the idea that more than one person was behind this ‘Zodiac front.’/quote]

I’m have a hunch about this as well. I also don’t have much to go on. However, wasn’t there one individual around the time of the Herman road killings who said he and his girlfriend were being chased on that same road and when he took the opposite of the fork in the road that he stopped as did the driver of the other car and he noticed that there were two individuals in the car?

Probably does mean much.

 

A few pages back, folks were discussing Fouke’s endorsement of Kane as being a ringer for the Z.

Fouke was supposed to have said:

"In the past 20 years or so I’ve been asked to look at hundreds of photos, and of all of them, this man is the best likeness."

However, I was browsing Mike Rodelli’s site in the Wayback Machine when I happened upon his interview with Fouke:

He (Fouke) said that the photo of Kane with glasses on showed that he had a similar hairline to what he recalls from that night. He therefore stated that he was a "possibility". He does not recall seeing the photo before or meeting Harvey Hines. He emphasized that he only saw the man for 5-10 seconds as he drove by.

Make of it what you will…

[quote="Welsh Chappie confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

Yes! The first three eliminating the male first.

[quote="Welsh Chappie confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

Yes! The first three eliminating the male first.

[quote="Welsh Chappie confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

At the risk of sounding offensive, I don’t find this particularly shocking. Who would present the greatest threat to any attacker, not just Zodiac? Certainly not the woman in 99% of cases. The fact that he took out the most obvious threat is hardly unique.

In regards to the title of this thread, "Why not Lawrence Kane," other than the fact that he was a criminal, was in the area at the time, and wore glasses similar to those in the police sketch, I don’t see much that points to Lawrence Kane.

While he was most definitely a criminal, he certainly wasn’t particularly good at it. He has 16 arrests on his record. How can this incompetent crook, who was arrested 16 times for various crimes, manage to kill at least 7 people, taunt the police, and evade capture for 40 years? He gets arrested for larceny, burglary, and prowling, but is so cunning he can avoid capture for multiple murders. As a former police officer, I don’t believe someone with this many arrests is slick enough to avoid capture in these cases.

His handwriting does not appear to match that of the known Zodiac letters. While one may argue that he disguised his handwriting when asked for a sample, finding a known sample of his handwriting should not have been particularly difficult. He was a realtor, so there should be many examples of his undisguised handwriting out there somewhere. This is assuming the Zodiac was NOT disguising his handwriting in the letters. Positively identifying printed handwriting is also much more difficult than cursive writing to begin with. So I find it highly doubtful that the Zodiac cases will be solved using handwriting.

The brain injury would not include nor would it preclude him from being Z. Welchchappie covered this on his website, but much of the information seems contradictory. On the one hand, it may have made him more aggressive or lowered his ability to follow the rules of society, but Larry didn’t really seem to follow the rules all that well to begin with. Such an injury also may make ordered thought difficult if not impossible…hardly the case with Z unless all the "codes" are just BS (something I’m beginning to wonder). We know that it resulted in facial paralysis in Larry’s case and one of the pictures appears to show a rather pronounced scar in the center of his forehead. If Z was responsible for Kathleen Johns’ abduction and Larry was Z, why wouldn’t she mention that scar and the droopy lip? Also, if Larry had damage to his LEFT frontal lobe, why is his lip and his eye drooping on the LEFT side in his driver’s license photo? Paralysis of the left side would be indicative of a RIGHT brain injury (although the scar does appear to be on the left side of his forehead). Did Larry’s injury cause him difficulty in walking? WC seems to make that conclusion, but is it a known fact?

When he was arrested for the jewel thefts he was described as glib and fast talking. Obviously, this was before the accident. Is there any evidence that his speech changed dramatically after the accident? Surely there are folks around yet who could answer that.

For many of the same reasons I have doubts about Ross Sullivan, I have serious doubts about Larry Kane, Cane, Burton, Klein, etc. He couldn’t even shoplift without getting caught. Zodiac was either the luckiest SOB alive or he was incredibly clever to have committed these murders, written the letters, and evaded capture/identification for nearly 50 years. If either Ross Sullivan or Larry Kane was the Zodiac, then Zodiac was just darn lucky! Can they be ruled out? Nope, but I have to think there is a more likely suspect out there…maybe one that no one has discovered yet. It is sad that this monster has gotten away with ruining so many lives. Even if he were still alive and were caught tomorrow, he still got to live longer after the crime than any of his victims had.

[quote="Welsh Chappie confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

Yes! The first three eliminating the male first.

[quote="Welsh Chappie confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

At the risk of sounding offensive, I don’t find this particularly shocking. Who would present the greatest threat to any attacker, not just Zodiac? Certainly not the woman in 99% of cases. The fact that he took out the most obvious threat is hardly unique.

In regards to the title of this thread, "Why not Lawrence Kane," other than the fact that he was a criminal, was in the area at the time, and wore glasses similar to those in the police sketch, I don’t see much that points to Lawrence Kane.

While he was most definitely a criminal, he certainly wasn’t particularly good at it. He has 16 arrests on his record. How can this incompetent crook, who was arrested 16 times for various crimes, manage to kill at least 7 people, taunt the police, and evade capture for 40 years? He gets arrested for larceny, burglary, and prowling, but is so cunning he can avoid capture for multiple murders. As a former police officer, I don’t believe someone with this many arrests is slick enough to avoid capture in these cases.

His handwriting does not appear to match that of the known Zodiac letters. While one may argue that he disguised his handwriting when asked for a sample, finding a known sample of his handwriting should not have been particularly difficult. He was a realtor, so there should be many examples of his undisguised handwriting out there somewhere. This is assuming the Zodiac was NOT disguising his handwriting in the letters. Positively identifying printed handwriting is also much more difficult than cursive writing to begin with. So I find it highly doubtful that the Zodiac cases will be solved using handwriting.

The brain injury would not include nor would it preclude him from being Z. Welchchappie covered this on his website, but much of the information seems contradictory. On the one hand, it may have made him more aggressive or lowered his ability to follow the rules of society, but Larry didn’t really seem to follow the rules all that well to begin with. Such an injury also may make ordered thought difficult if not impossible…hardly the case with Z unless all the "codes" are just BS (something I’m beginning to wonder). We know that it resulted in facial paralysis in Larry’s case and one of the pictures appears to show a rather pronounced scar in the center of his forehead. If Z was responsible for Kathleen Johns’ abduction and Larry was Z, why wouldn’t she mention that scar and the droopy lip? Also, if Larry had damage to his LEFT frontal lobe, why is his lip and his eye drooping on the LEFT side in his driver’s license photo? Paralysis of the left side would be indicative of a RIGHT brain injury (although the scar does appear to be on the left side of his forehead). Did Larry’s injury cause him difficulty in walking? WC seems to make that conclusion, but is it a known fact?

When he was arrested for the jewel thefts he was described as glib and fast talking. Obviously, this was before the accident. Is there any evidence that his speech changed dramatically after the accident? Surely there are folks around yet who could answer that.

For many of the same reasons I have doubts about Ross Sullivan, I have serious doubts about Larry Kane, Cane, Burton, Klein, etc. He couldn’t even shoplift without getting caught. Zodiac was either the luckiest SOB alive or he was incredibly clever to have committed these murders, written the letters, and evaded capture/identification for nearly 50 years. If either Ross Sullivan or Larry Kane was the Zodiac, then Zodiac was just darn lucky! Can they be ruled out? Nope, but I have to think there is a more likely suspect out there…maybe one that no one has discovered yet. It is sad that this monster has gotten away with ruining so many lives. Even if he were still alive and were caught tomorrow, he still got to live longer after the crime than any of his victims had.

I agree 100%. He does not seem like the cunning oddball that committed the murders. More of a bully and thug. I do think people tend to rely on the evidence available a little to much. I know that’s all we have but I don’t trust Faulke’s composite. I also don’t like Mugeau’s description. The only description that I trust is Bryan Hartnell’s. If I remember correctly, Hartnell said it was a big guy. He may could fake his fat but it’s hard to make yourself taller or shorter without it showing. No was you mistake 5’9 Kane for a 6’0+ man.

Hartnell said he was an awful judge of people’s height as he’s about 6’7” himself and Z was standing uphill from him and Cecelia. He said he was stocky/paunchy. Cecelia guessed maybe about 5’11” so you can’t rule out a guy of 5’9” especially as Mageau and a number of the Presidio witnesses estimated Z as around 5’8”.

Im not so sure that Z was responsible for the Kathleen Johns abduction but if he was then she described him as 5’9”, lean and no more than 160 pounds.

Hartnell said he was an awful judge of people’s height as he’s about 6’7” himself and Z was standing uphill from him and Cecelia. He said he was stocky/paunchy. Cecelia guessed maybe about 5’11” so you can’t rule out a guy of 5’9” especially as Mageau and a number of the Presidio witnesses estimated Z as around 5’8”.

Im not so sure that Z was responsible for the Kathleen Johns abduction but if he was then she described him as 5’9”, lean and no more than 160 pounds.

Great points. Outside of a few things – the only true description I trust with some accuracy is the Stine sketch.

QUestion: Does Kane have any history of writing poetry?

The Vallejo PD, back in 1991, re-opened the Zodiac case because of Kane and asked the FBI for his prints. They seemed to have ignored this request. Vallejo PD also stated in their Document they submitted to the FBI that ‘Kane was found in possession of a forged drivers licence, a federal offence, Vallejo PD plan to arrest Kane in order to obtain his prints if the FBI doesn’t have them on file.

The FBI’s protection of mob informants is a historical fact. Look at what Whitey Bulger got away with. As awful as it sounds, the FBI might have viewed catching Zodiac as insignificant compared to mafia investigations.

I think Kane’s a good down to earth suspect. The evidence is nice and grounded, though circumstantial.

But I gotta say one thing, and I know it’s been said, the guy’s very Jewish. I mean if Mageau got shot by Groucho Marx, he would have just said so. Unless he was one of those pesky Welsh Jews.