I think Kane’s a good down to earth suspect. The evidence is nice and grounded, though circumstantial.

But I gotta say one thing, and I know it’s been said, the guy’s very Jewish. I mean if Mageau got shot by Groucho Marx, he would have just said so. Unless he was one of those pesky Welsh Jews.

There are Welsh Jews!

As for the "Welsh appearance" remark, I think it meant Zodiac had reddish hair and skin darker than the average Caucasian person. It’s strange the witnessing officer made such a specific remark. I’m English and I’ve never heard anyone being referred to as "Welsh-looking".

I’m English and I’ve never heard anyone being referred to as "Welsh-looking".

I’m not sure anyone other than Fouke has ever described someone as "Welsh-looking".

I’m English and I’ve never heard anyone being referred to as "Welsh-looking".

I’m not sure anyone other than Fouke has ever described someone as "Welsh-looking".

I know right?! And it might be ok if was able to define what he meant, but he can’t and so it just ends up being even more confusing. Was he in essence saying that the individual was distinctive and of one ethnicity? It would seem to imply that there was something distinctive about his features. Did Fouke ever explain it further, have I just missed that interview?

Wales has got to be one of the most intermingled nations in Europe, but if I was forced to give a facial type I suppose there are one or two stereotypes that come to mind. The stocky working class rudgy player, fair skinned and with a big boofy head. The head could be round or blocky, but really it’s just plain big. There may be a slight propensity towards black hair, but really not so much.

That rudgy player look though… yes, it’s possible, it’s the one thing that might be cliche’ enough to travel around the world and pop into Foukes head. I know in reality that Welsh people probably play more soccer, but in old movies they’re often portrayed as thuggish and large, which is probably more to do with old timey racism.
I think the key is to think how they’re portrayed in films and television. Thugs in old British films were often cast as Irish, Scottish, or Welsh, anything other than English. Working class, poor, lower class. The racism runs pretty thick.

If I’m entirely honest when I picture Welsh people I generally think of character like Crab and Goyle from Harry Potter, or Vinne Jones when he was more bulky. Those characters probably aren’t Welsh in the films and they probably aren’t even played by Welsh people, but it’s that idea of the stocky working class guy with the a really big head.

I could understand someone seeing those features a little in Kane, but not if you knew what a Jewish people look like. Fouke is American, he’s far more likely to describe Kane as Jewish. There’s only one suspect who to me looks like a Welsh rugby player.

This one’s been doing the rounds for decades. Fouke apparently said Welsh looking as Z reminded him of his wife’s father who was Welsh. It would be a bit like a European describing someone as American looking if the only similar American they knew was just Donald Trump or Kevin Spacey or Danny DeVito, etc and that person looked similar to one of those. Obviously these Americans look nothing like each other…

Really would have loved to see a picture of Fouke’s father-in-law if he thought he looked a similar type to Z.

PS I don’t take kindly to being described as thuggish looking with a large blocky head!

My wife added, "definitely dark hair". I say thuggish, because in old British films those characters are normally portrayed as non-English.

The lack of fastidiousness does irritate me, I mean surely Fouke be aware of the stature of the case in which you’re involved, and him a star witness in one of the greatest mysteries in history, and in his know famous account he describes the suspect as "Welsh", it demands a thorough and detailed explanation. And it is revealed that he used the term in reference to his father-in-law, it’s at this point that any reasonable, normal human being would go and find a photo of this infernal father-in-law. Fouke is so detailed and yet so dense.

I tried to find Fouke’s wife’s maiden name and have not found it, because I wanted to get a picture of her father ! I looked for marriages in Calif. and some in NV, but they are limited. Maybe TF can find that?

Back to why not Kane? I listened to the I Heart Radio pod case Monster/ Zodiac , episode number 11. The hand print expert compared Kane’s prints to the prints found on Hartnell’s car door. they were not a match. She spoke of one print in particular that caught my attention, she said one of the prints from that car showed a scar on the finger tip. That sounds like it could be a match to the bloody print in Stine’s cab which has a scar.

This is information that is new to me and is huge in showing that the killer at Lake B was the same person who shot Paul Stine! That also proves that the person at Lake B was not as large as we have been told, because the suspect was much smaller that officer Fouke and the teens described. I would like to know more about those prints!

I tried to find Fouke’s wife’s maiden name and have not found it, because I wanted to get a picture of her father ! I looked for marriages in Calif. and some in NV, but they are limited. Maybe TF can find that?

Back to why not Kane? I listened to the I Heart Radio pod case Monster/ Zodiac , episode number 11. The hand print expert compared Kane’s prints to the prints found on Hartnell’s car door. they were not a match. She spoke of one print in particular that caught my attention, she said one of the prints from that car showed a scar on the finger tip. That sounds like it could be a match to the bloody print in Stine’s cab which has a scar.

This is information that is new to me and is huge in showing that the killer at Lake B was the same person who shot Paul Stine! That also proves that the person at Lake B was not as large as we have been told, because the suspect was much smaller that officer Fouke and the teens described. I would like to know more about those prints!

So both prints definitely have a scar? That’s very interesting.

Here is a link to Welch cahappie’s web site about Kane very well done and more information than even Harvey had on Kane. scroll down a few inches to see the prints that Harvey told his son were the prints off of Hartnell’s car door.

​ https://welshchappie.wordpress.com/

The first time I clicked on those prints, words popped up "Kane’s arrest prints" so are they really Kane’s prints or are they off of Hartnell’s car door?

Mageau says 160 pounds in this article, and 25 to 30 years old. But lets face it, he saw the guy for seconds in the dark, was shot, had his life fall apart and he has since been all over the map in re descriptions.

He also gave a completely contrary description immediately after the attack, and specifically states in the article his description was not exact and merely "impressional".

Probable victim Kathleen Johns also gave Zodiac’s weight as 160 pounds and 30 years old, and she sat close to him in a car, for several minutes.

Probable? What evidence suggests she is a probable victim? None of the the behaviors of the man she described matched the other crimes, and it was WAY outside Zodiac’s known hunting grounds. Furthermore, there is evidence to suggest that Johns made the whole thing up as an insurance scheme on her car. She’s either not a victim AT ALL, or, at best, is a "possible" victim.

Fouke said in his DVD interview that Allen was "100 pounds" heavier than the man he saw that night. The heaviest weight for Allen I have seen was 250 pounds.

The heaviest weight for Allen that I have seen is 300 lbs.

The SF Zodiac sketch has no fat in the face at all. It appears to show a lean man of about 160 pounds or so. Certainly not a heavy or fat man, which raises the possibility that Zodiac used a method like putting a towel under his shirt and wearing two jackets to make himself look heavier in body (as Ted K did).

Or he could just be stocky, husky, or muscular. In fact, nothing in the witness statements says anything about him being fat other than Cecilia and Hartnell saying that his belly hung over his belt. Lastly, I could do an image search and find hundreds of pictures of men who are "fat" or "overweight" or "stocky" with thin faces.

Posting Kane’s Finger Prints for Sandy.
A while back, Sandy went to Nevada to obtain these.

Team work, Zam*

Posting Kane’s Finger Prints for Sandy.
A while back, Sandy went to Nevada to obtain these.

Team work, Zam*

Thank you very much Zamantha , I have a real problem posting pictures as you know. ( As far as I know these are the only prints of Larry Kane ever shown.) They were taken when he was arrested for trying to cheat Pac Bell out of making long distance phone calls. He used what was called a "Black Box".

I would like to mention that I compared Kane’s middle finger print to the bloody print from Paul Stine’s cab, which was also a right hand middle finger. There is not a match to Kane’s print from what I can see. Kane does not have a scar on his middle right finger , the cab print has a scar.

The other prints that I have seen which are said to be from Harnell’s car door, look as if they are from the killers left hand and not the right. It makes sense to me that they would be from the left hand if he was writing with his right. He could have used his left to balance himself as he stooped to write on the door and forgot he touched it?

I am sure some of you will say Zodiac was too cleaver to leave his prints.

He had just stabbed two people in a grisly manner, he was probably a bit nervous as he was seen shaking before he started to stab them according to Hartnell. So being nervous as he is writing on the car door and hoping that he is not spotted by passers by, he wasn’t thinking about his hand leaving any prints.

Regardless of what I think there were prints found on Hartnell’s door that LE believe are the Zodiac’s.

I can see that most likely the prints on hartnels car are zodiacs but are we sure that those are his on the cab?

I can see that most likely the prints on hartnels car are zodiacs but are we sure that those are his on the cab?

There is no better evidence than a suspect leaving his prints in the victims blood! Everyone who was at that crime scene ,had their prints taken to eliminate those prints as being from anyone other than the killers. SFPD are confident that those are the Zodiac’s prints.

Zodiac lied about not leaving his prints there, saying he had glue on his fingers. LOL

Why then did he take the time of wiping down every place he thought he may have left prints?
He probably had on gloves at first when he fired the shot, but when he needed to get into Stine’s pants pockets he would have removed the gloves. They fell onto the floorboard when he moved Stine’s body, to cut the shirt and go into the pockets. ( That is what I believe happened) I truly believe that the best source of Zodiac’s DNA , are inside of those gloves! And that is what I told Pam Hoffsass when I spoke to her in San Francisco years ago. She has found male DNA from inside of those gloves. I have said many times that the Lake Berryessa case, has screwed this case up, because that costume made Zodiac look larger than he really was.

So when the gloves were found in the cab , they were thought to be left by a female, because they looked too small to be from thee now huge Zodiac! Well guess what, Zodiac was not huge as most want to believe. The 7 inch watch in Riverside and the size 7 gloves were more than likely left by Zodiac.