And he always did it in a place with some degree of quiet. CJB was right out there in the open. Its just so different.

Not really. If anything Paul Stine was the one that was more in the open.

And he always did it in a place with some degree of quiet. CJB was right out there in the open. Its just so different.

Not really. If anything Paul Stine was the one that was more in the open.

In a car on a darkened residential street is a far cry from outside of a college library. You don’t have a cocoon there, like you do in a car. And he parked near the Presidio- what’s he gonna do at RC?
In fact, I’d like to look at the actual layout there at Riverside. I have never been convinced enough to dig that deep. As a CC student at Socal schools I would be interested if it was like any of the campuses I have been on- there are definitely plenty of hidey-holes while still being out in the open. Just seems to take more guts than Z really showed.

In fact, I’d like to look at the actual layout there at Riverside. I have never been convinced enough to dig that deep.

Yeah I hear ya. I’m lazy too. lol.

It’s an interpretation thing I guess. I mean I suppose it could be argued that Berryessa was even more out in the open. Then again it was kinda remote … ish…kinda. With CJB it was near the library but it was also in a secluded spot for the locale. I suppose that from my pov all the attacks aren’t that wildly different from each other in terms of locale. They all have similar aspects in terms of remote vs not. They are all quite risky and in those terms I mention the Stine attack because he was seen, almost in the actual act but certainly immediately afterwards in a location that was residential and would have a quicker response time from LE (which happened). In those terms he was completely exposed. He also used a gun (not quiet). With CJB he (whoever he was) devised a plan to get her away from the immediate area to a secluded spot and attacked with a knife (silent).

Yeah I hear ya. I’m lazy too. lol.

It’s an interpretation thing I guess. I mean I suppose it could be argued that Berryessa was even more out in the open. Then again it was kinda remote … ish…kinda. With CJB it was near the library but it was also in a secluded spot for the locale. I suppose that from my pov all the attacks aren’t that wildly different from each other in terms of locale. They all have similar aspects in terms of remote vs not. They are all quite risky and in those terms I mention the Stine attack because he was seen, almost in the actual act but certainly immediately afterwards in a location that was residential and would have a quicker response time from LE (which happened). In those terms he was completely exposed. He also used a gun (not quiet). With CJB he (whoever he was) devised a plan to get her away from the immediate area to a secluded spot and attacked with a knife (silent).

You do have a point with the secluded spot and knife attack, I’ll grant you that. But a college campus….it just seemed that it was a hell of a first crime, if it WAS his first crime, and I really wish he would have dropped something that would make it irrevocably Z. In some people’s minds, the letter is irrevocably Z. The Z scrawl at the bottom of one of the "Bates Had to Die" letters is also interesting. But again, calling her Bates, it just sounds weird. Its not like she was a football linebacker or something; a coach would be the only one I could think of in a school setting who would use last names like that. What I never understood is RPD getting SFPD involved even tho they believed they already had their guy. I mean, if that’s a reflection of the level of professionalism of these guys (forgive my disrespect if anyone on this is former RPD!) then, no wonder the guy was never caught.

Yeah I hear ya. I’m lazy too. lol.

It’s an interpretation thing I guess. I mean I suppose it could be argued that Berryessa was even more out in the open. Then again it was kinda remote … ish…kinda. With CJB it was near the library but it was also in a secluded spot for the locale. I suppose that from my pov all the attacks aren’t that wildly different from each other in terms of locale. They all have similar aspects in terms of remote vs not. They are all quite risky and in those terms I mention the Stine attack because he was seen, almost in the actual act but certainly immediately afterwards in a location that was residential and would have a quicker response time from LE (which happened). In those terms he was completely exposed. He also used a gun (not quiet). With CJB he (whoever he was) devised a plan to get her away from the immediate area to a secluded spot and attacked with a knife (silent).

You do have a point with the secluded spot and knife attack, I’ll grant you that. But a college campus….it just seemed that it was a hell of a first crime, if it WAS his first crime, and I really wish he would have dropped something that would make it irrevocably Z. In some people’s minds, the letter is irrevocably Z. The Z scrawl at the bottom of one of the "Bates Had to Die" letters is also interesting. But again, calling her Bates, it just sounds weird. Its not like she was a football linebacker or something; a coach would be the only one I could think of in a school setting who would use last names like that. What I never understood is RPD getting SFPD involved even tho they believed they already had their guy. I mean, if that’s a reflection of the level of professionalism of these guys (forgive my disrespect if anyone on this is former RPD!) then, no wonder the guy was never caught.

I don’t think "Bob B." was a suspect right away. I know some cops have their favorites, but still consider other possibilities. They were all over RCC. Why do that if they had their man, ya know? For me personally, I don’t think that is a "Z" at the bottom of those letters, but we all see things differently.

As far as "Bates/Miss Bates", it could have simply been a way to make them think he knew her IF he didn’t. I think the guy who killed her did…but, not the letter writer.

But again, calling her Bates, it just sounds weird. Its not like she was a football linebacker or something; a coach would be the only one I could think of in a school setting who would use last names like that.

Or a teacher, or a student attempting to sound like a teacher, or a coach or an ‘unknown’ attempting to sound like someone who knew her but may not have know her first name or he did and was trying to make it look like he might not have. Never easy to tell with the clues in this case. Not even always easy to tell if they are clues or subterfuge.

Yeah I hear ya. I’m lazy too. lol.

It’s an interpretation thing I guess. I mean I suppose it could be argued that Berryessa was even more out in the open. Then again it was kinda remote … ish…kinda. With CJB it was near the library but it was also in a secluded spot for the locale. I suppose that from my pov all the attacks aren’t that wildly different from each other in terms of locale. They all have similar aspects in terms of remote vs not. They are all quite risky and in those terms I mention the Stine attack because he was seen, almost in the actual act but certainly immediately afterwards in a location that was residential and would have a quicker response time from LE (which happened). In those terms he was completely exposed. He also used a gun (not quiet). With CJB he (whoever he was) devised a plan to get her away from the immediate area to a secluded spot and attacked with a knife (silent).

You do have a point with the secluded spot and knife attack, I’ll grant you that. But a college campus….it just seemed that it was a hell of a first crime, if it WAS his first crime, and I really wish he would have dropped something that would make it irrevocably Z. In some people’s minds, the letter is irrevocably Z. The Z scrawl at the bottom of one of the "Bates Had to Die" letters is also interesting. But again, calling her Bates, it just sounds weird. Its not like she was a football linebacker or something; a coach would be the only one I could think of in a school setting who would use last names like that. What I never understood is RPD getting SFPD involved even tho they believed they already had their guy. I mean, if that’s a reflection of the level of professionalism of these guys (forgive my disrespect if anyone on this is former RPD!) then, no wonder the guy was never caught.

He did drop something that made it irrevocably Z, a watch. Think about it. He also sent letters before Z ever did – double stamped and signed with a makeshift symbol resembling a Z. He utilized Z’s probable preference of murdering women via knife and did not sexually assault CJB as was also consistent with Z’s female victims. Additionally, not many murderers in CA prior to Z sent taunting letters demanding they be published in the newspapers

The murder was late at night on a side of campus where there was construction and vacant houses. There was no one out in the area that he murdered her. She put up quite the struggle yet nobody seemed to hear her scream or see her struggle. Her body was not found for a few hours later in the morning when foot traffic began to pick up again. I’m not even sure if there were dorms on campus. It was simply a giant empty lot that night with many dirt paths and construction. Cheri’s murder was much less risky than Stine’s murder. Both happened at night, but the Presidio is a residential area where witnesses are many.

He had to have stalked her to premeditated her murder by cutting the wire in her car before attempting to "help" her later. It was half premeditation and half crime of opportunity. Additionally, if Bob had killed her he was fimiliar enough with Cheri to lure her somewhere without needing to employ a tactic to trap her the way an acquaintance or stranger would need to do. Think about Bundy and his whole "crutches" routine he pulled to gain his victim’s trust and appear harmless before viciously murdering her. It’s the big bad wolf scenario.

To each his own.

Oh and with DNA Bob was cleared – even with only having a partial genetic profile in CJB’s case to compare his DNA to.
Hair from under a stamp was used to clear ALA. Have always wondered if the hair in CJB’s case was determined to be from her kilker and if it yielded a DNA profile. If those hairs could be compared to the hair found under the stamp it could put the whole connection to bed. Then again, if the root of the hairs wasn’t attached then they may not be of any value as far as obtaining a DNA sample. Who knows maybe they suspected the hairs were planted to throw investigators off on the killer’s real hair color I just don’t even know and never will. Any touch DNA was gone long ago. Could go on and on about DNA but whatever.

Was the DNA compared to BB’s accomplice? I know he said he wasn’t involved with the murder, but I would’ve put him up as suspect #1, even more than Bob.

Was the DNA compared to BB’s accomplice? I know he said he wasn’t involved with the murder, but I would’ve put him up as suspect #1, even more than Bob.

I don’t know. The only DNA Report we have seen in the FBI files, was from BB

Yeah, I just read that. That seems to say that they didn’t test anyone else. WTF?

He did drop something that made it irrevocably Z, a watch.

Just curious how the watch made it "irrevocably Z"?

IMO Because Z was obsessed with the symbol of a cross surrounded by a circle and used it as his signature and put it on his clothes. He liked to leave the symbol, which was similar to a watches face with 0-3-6-9 lineated, at his crime scenes. Besides the post I was replying to was considering circumstancial and not necessarily only direct evidence to show something that was irrevocably Z.

Something representing this very same symbol is left on the cars and also by Cheri Jo’s body. Maybe Z simply did not have the time to leave cross circle at the Stine scene? He may not have had the time to do so which might explain why he was so intent on claiming Paul after the crime.

Anyhow I don’t want to derail this thread. Sorry