Good discussion here, all.

I agree, it is hard to truly analyze Z without being certain which crimes can actually be attributed to him. I like to hold out hope that there is physical evidence in the hands of someone, somewhere, that can tie some of the loose ends together. Without factual proof of some kind, it is difficult even to understand his primary MO — anti-police, anti-couple, frustrated writer/artist, delusional, disgruntled attention-seeker.

very good ideas and theories by all. i still think he wasn’t the typical serial killer. look at dennis rader (btk) – here’s a guy who fits the zodiac bill as far as being a regular guy in his day to day life, not someone anyone ever expected of being a serial killer, but a guy who liked to communicate with police about his murders. when he killed he relished in the ACT of killing. btk stands for "bind, torture, kill" because THAT is what he got off on. the communications with police from the btk were bravado but they weren’t his main interest, in fact he killed several people who were only connected to him much later because he didn’t brag about those killings but he did spend a lot of time with his victims and did the stereotypical weird serial killer stuff to them.

with zodiac, the killings were done with about the minimum interaction you can have with a victim while killing them. he didn’t torture anyone, he didn’t act out any fetishistic tendencies, in fact the only time he did more than the absolute minimum to kill someone was lb and lb is the piece of the puzzle that doesn’t fit anything else (hood, talking to victims, car writing, no letter, knife, tying people up). my point is, yes of course zodiac is a murderer, but he never showed the stereotypical serial killer tendencies of the killing being the ritualistic part of the act. for z the writings seemed to be his purpose, but i’ll concede that maybe that was an evolution of the process – for all we know lhr wasn’t him, brs was him settling a score with a spurned love interest, and then he realized the attention it got him so his MO was "more attention please".

…for all we know lhr wasn’t him, brs was him settling a score with a spurned love interest, and then he realized the attention it got him so his MO was "more attention please".

In a way I do like the idea of LHR being a non-Zodiac crime: He strikes at BRS and then takes credit for an unsolved double murder which has several similarities with the one he actually commits. As a smoke screen – or even just as a means to establish the Zodiac persona more effectively. It explains why he doesn’t boast about LHR until six months after – which is a problem of sorts for me.

On the other hand, if we regard LHR as non-Z, we have to presume that Z was someone with access to police reports. And this forces us right into hoax/conspiracy/whathaveyou terrain.

…for all we know lhr wasn’t him, brs was him settling a score with a spurned love interest, and then he realized the attention it got him so his MO was "more attention please".

In a way I do like the idea of LHR being a non-Zodiac crime: He strikes at BRS and then takes credit for an unsolved double murder which has several similarities with the one he actually commits. As a smoke screen – or even just as a means to establish the Zodiac persona more effectively. It explains why he doesn’t boast about LHR until six months after – which is a problem of sorts for me.

On the other hand, if we regard LHR as non-Z, we have to presume that Z was someone with access to police reports. And this forces us right into hoax/conspiracy/whathaveyou terrain.

But…with LHR, almost every detail was in the paper. Even number of rounds fired. The only thing I have not found was "Super-X" ammo. I imagine that would be something fairly easily found out for a local. We do also have positions of the bodies, but even those were outlined. Who says that anyway—"feet to the west"? And who would note that to remember?

Yes, Super X – but that is specific enough, surely, to rule out anyone who had simply read about the case in the papers?

And then there’s the detail Horgan makes such a big deal about (although for the wrong reasons, one might add): The letter writer apparently knew something only the killer, Stella Borges and someone who had access to the report could have known, namely the original position of BLJ’s body.

So, all things said and done, I would say it’s very unlikely that someone who only knew the case from the papers could have written that letter – unless he simply got lucky with the ammo brand and the part about BLJ’s position. And the latter seems very unlikely.

Could be something as simple as hearing cops talk it over in coffee house…who knows?

Could be something as simple as hearing cops talk it over in coffee house…who knows?

A coincidence on top of all the speculation? Sheesh, it never ends.

Could be something as simple as hearing cops talk it over in coffee house…who knows?

A coincidence on top of all the speculation? Sheesh, it never ends.

I guess I just take into consideration what the lead investigator stated…that the person who wrote the letters could have found out the information elsewhere. Maybe Lundbland knew something we didn’t. Beyond what was reported in the paper, yes, the rest is speculation.

I believe he wore the hood because he filmed the attack. He didn’t want to be seen on the film in the event it fell into the wrong hands and could be used against him, perhaps in prosecution. I think the elaborate embroidery and effort that went into his appearance that day harkens back to his prior admissions of loving The Most Dangerous Game and costumed operas like the Mikado. He wanted it to be theatrical, as well as a recording of his crime which he could relive over and over again in the comfort of his own home. I recall reading somewhere that detectives sweeping the scene discovered three holes in the soil by one of the trees. I believe, as has been speculated, that his was left by a tripod. I also think the Beryessa attack was carried out in daytime – the only known daylight Zodiac attack – because he needed the light for his camera to record the deed. Why else conceal your identity when the people you show yourself to are going to be killed?

If the scene was filmed, this must have happened from some distance.

In my opinion Z wore the hood because he knew Cecilia (most likely her). He was aware that she would have recognized him with an immediate (panic?) reaction. The hood was his only chance to talk to his victims, so to say in an impressive dominating way – before any of them would run away or laugh at him. IMO Z knew Cecilia. Where from? Well, Cecilia’s father was a teacher at Loma Linda University. Near Riverside.

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=3083&p=56706&hilit=leonard+bates#p56706

QT

I’m thinking that the whole costume and hood wasn’t so much of a way to conceal Zodiac from his victims, but to conceal him from… himself. I’m strongly in agreement with the angle presented in Kelleher’s & Van Nyus’ book that there was a significant amount of dissociation and fantasy in Zodiac’s behaviour. Would like to go so far as to say that he might have suffered from what we nowadays call maladaptive daydreaming (which is typically a reaction to abuse and other traumas).

The detective magazines and comics he read probably had provided him an escape from difficult life situation and inspired him. It would be a fantasy where he could be everything he isn’t in reality. The further this fantasy and his actions went, the stronger the fantasy would come. The costume would be nothing more than part of that. People wonder how he could be so calm at Presidio Heights – well, probably he was so deep in this omnipotent fantasy, in his character, that although he rationally knew the fantasy is not true, it still was so strong that it kept him cool.

He probably did not use the costume again simply due to inconvenience. Maybe he felt, after using it once, that acting during daylight in order to sport the costume wasn’t worth the risk.

the first two attacks were late at night and lake berryessa was late september around 6:30pm when it wouldn’t have been dark, plus in the first two attacks he stayed close to his car. it makes sense he would feel like he needed a mask at berryessa.

If the scene was filmed, this must have happened from some distance.

In my opinion Z wore the hood because he knew Cecilia (most likely her).

The problem I see with both of those suppositions is that Cecilia got a good long look at him as he approached, She first saw him several hundred yards away according to the detective who spoke to her. Seems she would have seen if he had a camera, I’m assuming it would have been on a tripod that required him to set it up. Seems she would have recognized him if she did know him, he wasn’t that far away when he stepped behind the tree to put the mask on.

I’ve always been amazed at how relatively calm both Bryan and Cecilia were. I mean, if this was heading towards me, I’d loose my **** and he’d have to shoot me in the back as I was running away. This image has always been nightmare fuel to me.

As to why he wore it, it was important to him. If he just wanted to hide his face, a ski mask would have worked. I agree with many others it made him look, at least to himself, like the super villain he wanted to be.

I’m also not convinced that LB was the only time he wore it. We know he didn’t with Stein of course, or with the Ferrin/Mageau shooting, but I’m pretty well convinced he killed more than we or the police know. Seems something he put too much time and effort in for a one time use.

Apart from an obvious disguise, I think this was him bringing the Zodiac to life. Where previously he only existed on paper in the letters he wrote. The costume seems like an adaptation of the standard executioner’s outfit which is well documented throughout history.

Apart from an obvious disguise, I think this was him bringing the Zodiac to life. Where previously he only existed on paper in the letters he wrote. The costume seems like an adaptation of the standard executioner’s outfit which is well documented throughout history.

Maybe he didn’t have the balls to have them look directly in his face.

He didn’t wear the hood traveling down, and he most certainly didn’t wear it walking up and around to (and in) his car. People saw him that day. There is no doubt.

Hard to figure out the mind of a disturbed individual. Why did he do it? Nutso.