If a profile led to a known suspect or POI, then they’d have something. If none of the profiles they procured from the cab matched a known suspect, that’s where the grunt work comes in, but there are plenty of volunteers to do that.

So, I don’t know if that’s true. If Lawrence Kane’s DNA is found in the cab, does that mean he killed Stine? I don’t think so. It’s a possibility. But all that the DNA proves is that he rode in the cab at some point.

I’ve done a lot of litigating involving DNA in the criminal defense context. DNA from the cab would not solve the case. It would be another data point, though. Full profiles are increasingly easier to raise from increasingly smaller samples. At this point, it only takes about two cell’s worth of nuclear DNA to get a full profile. If DNA testing identifies 100 individuals who rode in that cab, there are 100 people who have a better chance of being Zodiac than I do (I wasn’t born until after the Stine murder). It is resource-intensive, but those 100 people could then be cross-referenced with the other crimes. LE can find old address. They could access criminal and military records to obtain fingerprints. The list of cross-referencing points is only limited by imagination. Conclusive proof that a person was in the cab is just another block/fact with which a case can be built against someone. It would take many other blocks/facts, but the more of them that are found, the stronger a case can be made. Conclusive proof of presence in the cab would be a strong and solid block/fact to utilize. It may not be a large block/fact, but it would be strong.

DNA is hardy. It can survive under the strangest circumstances. There’s a study that demonstrates 7 successive washings with hot water and strong bleach did not remove all DNA from a towel. If LE is willing to invest the time and effort in this kind of DNA testing then it’s not completely ridiculous. It just won’t solve the case like it did in GSK and BTK.

If a profile led to a known suspect or POI, then they’d have something. If none of the profiles they procured from the cab matched a known suspect, that’s where the grunt work comes in, but there are plenty of volunteers to do that.

So, I don’t know if that’s true. If Lawrence Kane’s DNA is found in the cab, does that mean he killed Stine? I don’t think so. It’s a possibility. But all that the DNA proves is that he rode in the cab at some point.

I’ve done a lot of litigating involving DNA in the criminal defense context. DNA from the cab would not solve the case. It would be another data point, though. Full profiles are increasingly easier to raise from increasingly smaller samples. At this point, it only takes about two cell’s worth of nuclear DNA to get a full profile. If DNA testing identifies 100 individuals who rode in that cab, there are 100 people who have a better chance of being Zodiac than I do (I wasn’t born until after the Stine murder). It is resource-intensive, but those 100 people could then be cross-referenced with the other crimes. LE can find old address. They could access criminal and military records to obtain fingerprints. The list of cross-referencing points is only limited by imagination. Conclusive proof that a person was in the cab is just another block/fact with which a case can be built against someone. It would take many other blocks/facts, but the more of them that are found, the stronger a case can be made. Conclusive proof of presence in the cab would be a strong and solid block/fact to utilize. It may not be a large block/fact, but it would be strong.

DNA is hardy. It can survive under the strangest circumstances. There’s a study that demonstrates 7 successive washings with hot water and strong bleach did not remove all DNA from a towel. If LE is willing to invest the time and effort in this kind of DNA testing then it’s not completely ridiculous. It just won’t solve the case like it did in GSK and BTK.

GSK was ultimately discovered using a familial hit in a private data base (something Codis cant do), which is sometimes considered unethical and in some cases illegal and inadmissable.

BTK was discovered because he believed it was safe to respond using an older style diskette, but the metadata on the disk revealed the name of the church he attended as the owner of the computer. Im sure they crossed referenced his DNA after the fact, but Raider was never in Codis as a known variable, just an unknown.

At this point, it only takes about two cell’s worth of nuclear DNA to get a full profile.

So if Zodiac licked a stamp 50 years ago, would that stamp have more than two cells worth of nuclear DNA?

Not sure about the specific number of cells, but there is a cottage industry of labs now that test ‘special samples’ which include envelopes and stamps. They charge a ballpark price of 300 bucks to provide autosomal profiles upload-able to open source databases.

More of a factor than the age of the stamp apparently is how it’s been stored: storage in humid conditions for example reduces the chance of a successful extraction with a clean profile.

More of a factor than the age of the stamp apparently is how it’s been stored: storage in humid conditions for example reduces the chance of a successful extraction with a clean profile.

How about something like this? Problematic or okay?

Yeah, you have to assume the DNA solve is in there somewhere. If those file cabinets were the property of an enterprising Silicon Valley startup, odds are they’d find a way.

I’ve done a lot of litigating involving DNA in the criminal defense context. DNA from the cab would not solve the case. It would be another data point, though. Full profiles are increasingly easier to raise from increasingly smaller samples. At this point, it only takes about two cell’s worth of nuclear DNA to get a full profile. If DNA testing identifies 100 individuals who rode in that cab, there are 100 people who have a better chance of being Zodiac than I do (I wasn’t born until after the Stine murder). It is resource-intensive, but those 100 people could then be cross-referenced with the other crimes. LE can find old address. They could access criminal and military records to obtain fingerprints. The list of cross-referencing points is only limited by imagination. Conclusive proof that a person was in the cab is just another block/fact with which a case can be built against someone. It would take many other blocks/facts, but the more of them that are found, the stronger a case can be made. Conclusive proof of presence in the cab would be a strong and solid block/fact to utilize. It may not be a large block/fact, but it would be strong.

DNA is hardy. It can survive under the strangest circumstances. There’s a study that demonstrates 7 successive washings with hot water and strong bleach did not remove all DNA from a towel. If LE is willing to invest the time and effort in this kind of DNA testing then it’s not completely ridiculous. It just won’t solve the case like it did in GSK and BTK.

Alot of things would have to go right for a random DNA sample from the cab to lead to a viable suspect. It could happen. But, LE isn’t going to spend the time or money on a 50-year-old cold case that is likely never going to trial. At this point, the Zodiac is probably dead or on death’s door.

At this point, it only takes about two cell’s worth of nuclear DNA to get a full profile.

So if Zodiac licked a stamp 50 years ago, would that stamp have more than two cells worth of nuclear DNA?

Potentially, depending on the storage method of the envelope. If stored in an un-airconditioned warehouse subject to humidity and heat, probably not. If in a room kept at 72 degrees or so at all times, quite possibly.

More of a factor than the age of the stamp apparently is how it’s been stored: storage in humid conditions for example reduces the chance of a successful extraction with a clean profile.

How about something like this? Problematic or okay?

Oops. I should have read to the bottom of the thread before posting my last post. I would think there’s a decent chance to get 50-year-old DNA from stamps on envelopes in those filing cabinets.

The ability to do something is always a separate consideration from whether that thing should be done. DNA testing may not produce a viable suspect, but it certainly can. At this point it is more likely to produce a solution than someone’s walking in off the street and confessing in believable detail. The real question is whether it’s worth the effort, the resources, and the political/law enforcement capital it would take.

If it’s $300 a pop these days, they should be able to have all the envelopes tested for 5 grand. Good chance many of the flaps and stamps are too degraded, but all we need is one.

Oops. I should have read to the bottom of the thread before posting my last post. I would think there’s a decent chance to get 50-year-old DNA from stamps on envelopes in those filing cabinets.

The ability to do something is always a separate consideration from whether that thing should be done. DNA testing may not produce a viable suspect, but it certainly can. At this point it is more likely to produce a solution than someone’s walking in off the street and confessing in believable detail. The real question is whether it’s worth the effort, the resources, and the political/law enforcement capital it would take.

Well, I think the problem is that the envelopes were already tested for saliva and very little was found. It may just be that Zodiac didn’t lick his envelopes or stamps. Some people don’t like the taste of the glue (I doubt he had any prescient knowledge of DNA). And those envelopes have passed through so many sets of hands by now that it might be impossible to get anything even if there were saliva present.

Oops. I should have read to the bottom of the thread before posting my last post. I would think there’s a decent chance to get 50-year-old DNA from stamps on envelopes in those filing cabinets.

The ability to do something is always a separate consideration from whether that thing should be done. DNA testing may not produce a viable suspect, but it certainly can. At this point it is more likely to produce a solution than someone’s walking in off the street and confessing in believable detail. The real question is whether it’s worth the effort, the resources, and the political/law enforcement capital it would take.

Well, I think the problem is that the envelopes were already tested for saliva and very little was found. It may just be that Zodiac didn’t lick his envelopes or stamps. Some people don’t like the taste of the glue (I doubt he had any prescient knowledge of DNA). And those envelopes have passed through so many sets of hands by now that it might be impossible to get anything even if there were saliva present.

I tend to think they got some from a different envelope than previously tested

It’s conceivable they developed a DNA profile from the stamps or flaps and traced it to an individual, and that the individual is not a known suspect or POI, and is deceased. LE would therefore be reluctant to make an announcement without definitive proof.

If there is a DNa profile that has been developed recently, which agemcy is most likely to have that profile? I developed a profile from my POI, and I want to be able to send the numbers to the correct agency.

Odds are it would be Vallejo PD, since they announced that they’ve been actively re-submitting materials for testing.