Nachtsider, Subject: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:51 pm

Surprised there hasn’t been a thread here to discuss the case. Figured I’d start one, in light of this new development:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/02/po … msey-case/

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:55 pm

Jack Tarrance did it. Didn’t you hear?

Zamantha, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:20 pm

Thanks Nacht, I just heard that news today. Don’t you think the son did it? But if he did, and now he’s older and wiser…. I may feel a touch bad for him…. I mean
it seems like the Mom just kinda pushed JonBenet into too much at a young age……. makes you wonder how they treated their son.
And Mr. Bungle, you crack me up, you are gonna be blaming everything on Jack T…………… where you been hanging out, haha*

morf13, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:26 pm

What I dont get is that Jon Benet was molested, and had a garot tied around her neck, not to mention the ransom note. How did a 9 year old kid do all of that? Dont buy it personally.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:40 pm

What I dont get is that Jon Benet was molested, and had a garot tied around her neck, not to mention the ransom note. How did a 9 year old kid do all of that? Dont buy it personally.

Yah, way too much for the brother to have commited such an act, but maybe he saw or heard something or knew of a creepy Uncle or friend of the family or something?

Zamantha, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:11 pm

What I dont get is that Jon Benet was molested, and had a garot tied around her neck, not to mention the ransom note. How did a 9 year old kid do all of that? Dont buy it personally.

I hope not. SO, what are you thoughts who did it. Was the ransom note for real or did Patsy write it? It’s a very strange story indeed…. doesn’t add up.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:45 am

The "theory" I have heard is that either Patsy hit Jon Benet in the tub and she fell, hit her head and died OR the brother "accidently" killed Jon Benet. Either way, John and Patsy decided to cover it up by staging a kidnapping/sex crime.

Backing up this theory is that John and Patsy claimed the brother was asleep at the critical time yet his voice can be heard in the background of the 911 call. Why would the parents lie about the brother being asleep if he wasn’t asleep?

Of course, there is nothing to prove these theories and a lot against them.

The intruder theory is doubtful but cannot be totally discounted.

To me the case is a genuine mystery, and I don’t have an answer, or even one theory I favor above any other. But there were several experts who said Patsy wrote the ransom note – and several who said she didn’t. But why would a child killer sit in the house for an hour and write that note?

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:58 am

My opinion says none of the family members did it. I think it was someone whom the family knew and who had been to their home previously, perhaps someone from the beauty pageant circuit – goodness knows loads of pedophiles troll the scene – or even one of John Ramsey’s employees.

I’d like to draw your attention to this article (see below), specifically the section concerning what happened to ‘Amy’. It strongly suggests that a predator was in the area, and both Amy and JonBenet may have been his victims. My money is on the perp botching his attempt to abduct JonBenet, and later going after Amy as a substitute. I can’t rule out his having an accomplice.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ … 1569.shtml

The only item that points towards one of the Ramseys as the culprit is the ransom note. For what it’s worth, most of the BPD document examiners concluded that Patsy was probably not the writer. The ‘personal touches’ in the note, like the ransom figure that perfectly matched John Ramsey’s recent financial bonus, need not necessarily point towards a family member; a close acquaintance is just as likely to have picked up on that knowledge. Ultimately, however, expert opinion on who wrote it is so split that I seriously question the note’s value as evidence. Take that piece of paper away and the whole case becomes an open and shut intruder affair. This may sound silly, but I wonder why no-one has considered the possibility that the note was an attempt to frame the parents. If it was, it’s been pretty damn effective.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:21 am

That is interesting but I just can’t see a serial child rapist/child killer sitting at the table writing a note for an hour.

Evidence of intrusion was weak.

It certainly is interesting that they want to talk to the brother. When I looked at this case briefly, the concept that the brother may have accidently killed Jon Benet, perhaps in the context of sexual experimentation, or a fight, did interest me, and could explain the "cover up" behavior of the parents.

If his voice is on the tape, why did the parents lie and say he was asleep?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:24 am

There is also evidence and experts who say that the voice of BURKE is NOT on the tape, but here is an analysis of those who say it is. If true, and if these words were really said, it does point to the brother being perhaps involved:

Is Burke’s Voice on an Enhanced Tape?

Evidence in Favor of Burke’s Voice Being on the Tape
Aerospace Corporation Analysis
Analysis Requested by BPD. At the request of BPD, Aerospace Corporation, which reportedly had more advanced equipment for such analysis, conducted a test of the 911 tape. According to Internet poster Jayelles, Aerospace works free of charge for law enforcement agencies. The official report from Aerospace was given to BPD in May 1997, but has never been released to the public.

No Comment by Aerospace. On August 21, 1998, it was reported "Robert Pentz, director of the National Law Enforcement & Corrections Technology Center for the Western Region, operated by Aerospace Corp. for the National Institute of Justice, said the company had no comment on the tape. "Even though we acknowledge the fact we do work for law enforcement agencies … it is a matter of policy we don’t comment on cases that are open without written permission of the affected law enforcement agency," Pentz said."

Aerospace Stands Behind its Work. However, in 2003, according to the National Enquirer (see below), in response to claims that two firms hired by NBC to analyze the tape had found no evidence of Burke’s voice, "the renowned high-tech company that enhanced the tape for the Boulder police says its original findings that Burke’s voice is on the tape is correct. We stand by our work," Linda Brill, spokesperson for The Aerospace Corporation of El Segundo, Calif., told the Enquirer. The company maintains a division of a Department of Justice – funded institute that offers space-age expertise to police departments nationwide. "We are top shelf," said Brill.
Leaked Aerospace Findings

National Enquirer (1998). The National Enquirer leaked the Aerospace findings in a world exclusive appearing in its September 1, 1998 issue. In a later article written by Don Gentile appearing in July 2003, the following was leaked (transcribed by Internet poster Rickamorti of Purg and posted with permission by Internet poster LurkerXIV):
"Boulder Detective Melissa Hickman took the tape to the Aerospace Corporation for enhancement. There, experts enhanced the tape. At first they heard Patsy saying "Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus," and Burke saying, "Please, what do I do?" according to a source."
"After further analysis, they heard three distinct voices, then gave the enhanced recording to Det. Hickman. "Hickman heard John Ramsey say, "We’re not speaking to you," in what sounded like a very angry voice," the source said. "Patsy then says, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus," and finally Burke is clearly heard to say "Well what did you find?" with an emphasis on the word "did."
When the original leak appeared in 1998, the Boulder Daily Camera reported: "The general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate, according to sources familiar with the investigation." But the same article also reported: "Spokeswomen for the Boulder police and the Boulder County District Attorney’s Office would not comment on the 911 tape from Dec. 26, 1996."

Lawrence Schiller Book (1999). A slightly different version of this conversation is reported in a review by the Boston Globe: “[Boulder Police Detective Melissa] Hickman listened to the tape and wrote down what she heard.
" ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’ That was clearly Patsy’s voice. Then, in the distance, there was another voice, which sounded like JonBenet’s brother.
" ‘Please, what do I do?’ Burke said.
" ‘We’re not speaking to you,’ Hickman heard John Ramsey say.
" Patsy screamed again. ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’
" And then, more clearly, Burke said, ‘What did you find?’ "

Steve Thomas Book (2000). The purported Aerospace findings also were leaked by Steve Thomas in his book and another book by Henry Lee (2001): "For a few tantalizing seconds, police heard background sounds that they could not understand. Detectives sent this tape out to the best electronic experts in the region and, still, save for Patsy Ramsey’s sobbing and prayers, nothing more could be made out of the background noise. Then the police discovered a new and expert electronics company, Aerospace Corporation in El Segundo, California, that they provided with a copy of the tape. What came back was worth all of this trouble. When these sounds were brought up many times over, police heard Burke and John Ramsey in an exchange. The child said, "Please, what do I do?" To this John Ramsey replied, "We are not speaking to you." Finally, Burke is heard to ask, "What did you find?"

Steve Thomas Chat Session (2000). The following is an excerpt from a November 14, 2000 chat session with Steve Thomas: crimeADM: "Did you hear the 911 tape personally; and if so, once and for all, was Burke on it?" stevethomas: "I heard the 911 tape. repeatedly, as did the other detectives. the consensus was unanimous, as supported by the enhancement — there is a 3rd voice on the tape, appears to be Burke (unless there was someone else present who has never been identified…)"

Bonita Papers. A 5-paragraph section of the Bonita Papers provides even further detail which confirms the wording of the additional conversations as stated in the Thomas book. Note that the reliability of the Bonita Papers has been called in question.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/The%20911%20Call

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:21 am

And Mr. Bungle, you crack me up, you are gonna be blaming everything on Jack T…………… where you been hanging out, haha*

I’m not the one blaming Jack Tarrance for it…THEY are! Barto claims the handwriting’s a match…no joke. Here’s their most recent discussions:

http://denniskaufman.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3527120&trail=450

It’s obviously ridiculous, but it’s just another incident they want to tie Tarrance to.

Please continue the sensible discussion.

morf13, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:36 am

And Mr. Bungle, you crack me up, you are gonna be blaming everything on Jack T…………… where you been hanging out, haha*

I’m not the one blaming Jack Tarrance for it…THEY are! Barto claims the handwriting’s a match…no joke. Here’s their most recent discussions:

http://denniskaufman.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3527120&trail=450

It’s obviously ridiculous, but it’s just another incident they want to tie Tarrance to.

Please continue the sensible discussion.

Wow, they really know of no boundaries, do they?

morf13, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:42 am

I am not super familiar with the Ramsey case, but I have seen a couple documentaries on it. One in particular featured an older man with glasses (if I remember correctly) that was hired either by the Family or police to research and look at the crime scene. He was some investigative genius or something.As I recall, he found pretty clear indication of entry made into a lower floor window (basement I think).

Also, if the DNA on Jon Benet didnt match anyone in the Familiy, why would they think one of them did it?

Lastly, and most weirdest of all, one of the neighbors was an old man that lived in the area. He used to dress up as Santa, and even had real glasses & beard, and every year, all the kids in the area would go visit him. On that day, supposedly, Jon Benet had a visit with him, and allegedly told her that she was going to be getting a special visit from Santa. Decades earlier, that same man who played Santa, had written a story, or play, about a young girl who is murdered on xmas eve, and her body found in the basement. Supposedly, this guy was ruled out as the perp, but if that isnt a huge case of Zyncronicity, I dont know what is.

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:07 am

My theory is that Burke did NOT do this, but they are now wanting to ask him more about his now dearly departed sick and disturbed mommy…

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:32 am

Concerning those who suspect a familymember accidentaly killed Jonbennet and then staged it as a murder:

IMHO Jonbennet´s death could not have been caused by some kind of family member accident gone wrong.

IMO, there is no doubt that, she died by stangulation caused by the garotte, due to that you, on autopsy pictures, can see destinct blu/red bruises around her neck.
Thise bruises can ONLY occure if the victim was alive while the strangulation was performed.
To cause bruises you have to be alive, there has to be blood circulation/blood pressuer in the body, and a dead body does not have that , dead bodies don´t bleed.

Here is a link to autopsy photos, WARNING VERY GRAPHIC PHOTOS:

http://zyberzoom.com/JonBenet.html

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:16 am

…absolutley irrelevant to whether or not a family member could have done this. All evidence points to Patsy Ramsey. The only reason they did not charge her is because police/LE/forensic techs completely messed up the crime scene and allowed it to become "fatally" contaminated, thus chain of custody was destoyed, thus case could not be brought to trial.

Her mother was a very narcissistic and disturbed individual; the school had expressed previous concerns about JonBenet, as had household staff.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:31 am

My opinion says none of the family members did it. I think it was someone whom the family knew and who had been to their home previously, perhaps someone from the beauty pageant circuit – goodness knows loads of pedophiles troll the scene – or even one of John Ramsey’s employees.

I’d like to draw your attention to this article (see below), specifically the section concerning what happened to ‘Amy’. It strongly suggests that a predator was in the area, and both Amy and JonBenet may have been his victims. My money is on the perp botching his attempt to abduct JonBenet, and later going after Amy as a substitute. I can’t rule out his having an accomplice.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/ … 1569.shtml

The only item that points towards one of the Ramseys as the culprit is the ransom note. For what it’s worth, most of the BPD document examiners concluded that Patsy was probably not the writer. The ‘personal touches’ in the note, like the ransom figure that perfectly matched John Ramsey’s recent financial bonus, need not necessarily point towards a family member; a close acquaintance is just as likely to have picked up on that knowledge. Ultimately, however, expert opinion on who wrote it is so split that I seriously question the note’s value as evidence. Take that piece of paper away and the whole case becomes an open and shut intruder affair. This may sound silly, but I wonder why no-one has considered the possibility that the note was an attempt to frame the parents. If it was, it’s been pretty damn effective.

I’m with you Nach.

That little boy wouldn’t have had the strength to pull any of that off.

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:35 am

…absolutley irrelevant to whether or not a family member could have done this. All evidence points to Patsy Ramsey. The only reason they did not charge her is because police/LE/forensic techs completely messed up the crime scene and allowed it to become "fatally" contaminated, thus chain of custody was destoyed, thus case could not be brought to trial.

Her mother was a very narcissistic and disturbed individual; the school had expressed previous concerns about JonBenet, as had household staff.

If you read my input again, you can see that, what I said was, it could not have been an accident gone wrong, and then staged as a murder.
Due to the bruises Jonbennet had around her neck , she had to have been alive while the garrote was used.

And I think this is indeed very relevant when theorizing on how and by whom Jobennet was murdered.

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:38 am

…Ok, sorry TF; it was confusing…

Nacht, etc. al., no way, I agree that BURKE could have done it, but Patsy absolutely could have…

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:09 pm

…Ok, sorry TF; it was confusing…

Nacht, etc. al., no way, I agree that BURKE could have done it, but Patsy absolutely could have…

Thats ok, no problem.

Since you are so sure that Jonbennet´s mother killed her daughter, what is your opinion on this:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9833564

Posted: 07/10/2008

DA clears Ramsey family

Armed with new DNA evidence that points to an unknown male as JonBenet Ramsey’s killer, Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy on Wednesday took the extraordinary step of publicly exonerating the child’s parents and immediate family in her death.

"Significant new evidence . . . convinces us that it is appropriate, given the circumstances of this case, to state that we do not consider your immediate family, including you, your wife, Patsy, and your son, Burke, to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime," Lacy wrote.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:02 pm

The DNA was minute, and it could have come from a garment worker. Forensics expert Henry Lee purchased packaged childrens underwear at various stores, and found minute DNA on about half of them

There are documented instances of boys around 9 to 10 sexually assaulting and even killing girls of 5 to 7. Also, local schools have passed out papers around the time of Jon Benet’s death alerting parents to something called "the choking game" that kids have been caught playing, sometimes with lethal results. Kids would choke each other to black out, sometimes using hands, sometimes using belts or rope.

IF the tape analysis was correct, why did the parents lie and say Burke was sleeping, if in fact he was up?

SEE:

Lawrence Schiller Book (1999). A slightly different version of this conversation is reported in a review by the Boston Globe: “[Boulder Police Detective Melissa] Hickman listened to the tape and wrote down what she heard.
" ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’ That was clearly Patsy’s voice. Then, in the distance, there was another voice, which sounded like JonBenet’s brother.
" ‘Please, what do I do?’ Burke said.
" ‘We’re not speaking to you,’ Hickman heard John Ramsey say.
" Patsy screamed again. ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’
" And then, more clearly, Burke said, ‘What did you find?’ "

Why is Patsy reacting as if she knows Jon Benet is already dead?

Why does Burke ask "Please, what do I do?"

Why does John yell at Burke in anger?

Why does Burke ask "What did you find?"

All of that…IF TRUE…is consistent with Burke intentionally or accidently causing the death of Jon Benet and the parents making a decision to not lose another child that same night by protecting Burke and writing a ransom note to stage a kidnapping. No intruder wrote that long note with private info on it IMO.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:15 pm

Maybe considering the circumstances, Dad was just snapping at Burke.

Her little skull was practically cracked in half. Burke just couldn’t have done that imo. Not that it’s not possible, just not probable. And the knots..doesn’t seem like something a child would do.

I know mothers are capable of killing their children, but I just don’t see it being done in such a manner as with JonBenet. Crazier chit has happened though.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:35 pm

Valid points.

I have never seen a motive for Patsy to kill Jon Benet. Other than the accidental fall in the tub possibility.

But let us say an intruder killed Jon Benet. IF that is Burke’s voice on the tape, why do the parents lie and say he was asleep? Couldn’t Burke have seen something? Maybe he was with Jon Benet, or heard or saw something? If an intruder killed Jon Benet, why would they lie and deprive police of a possible witness?

Why does Burke say "Please, what do I do?" and "What did you find?"

It just seems there is more to to this story, and that it may involve Burke, but i doubt we will ever know the truth.

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:34 pm

I too believe that Jon Benet met her fate at the hands of a family member and that Patsy wrote the note. I find it appalling she was not charged. There is absoloutly nothing that I have seen as regards the case that would indicate an outsider. On the 23rd of December a 911 call was placed from the Ramsay home to the police. It has never been explained. I think (my own opinion) that someone perhaps wanted to see how fast the emergency services could get to the Ramsey home the alternative being that someone needed the police, Patsy was one of two people who answered the door as the party was going on , the police did not even go inside. John Ramsay contaminated every piece of evidince practically from the get go ably assisted by the inept police who allowed all sorts of friends to come wandering through the house, it was abysmal. They even removed things from the home before the investigation could get going. If Boulder police had done their job properly then most of this sad spectacle could have been avoided.

There are some great sites out there on the net with tons of information. Immerse yourself in it and use logic and a good dollop of common sense. Don’t even get me started on that Abomination Karr. And Fleet White one of the two other men who ‘searched’ the Ramsey home with JR and who has since then had a dramatic falling out with them, knows more than he is letting on as well. Time for him to open his mouth I feel.

morf13, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:24 pm

Didnt these parents take, and pass, a lie detector test? Cant remember if that was what happened. If not, were they offered a lie detector test?

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:31 pm

I think they may have hired someone to give them a lie detector test.

I think they refused police lie detector tests.

But even if they passed a lie detector test, remember that so did Gary Ridgway. They are not allowed in criminal court.

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:12 pm

I too believe that Jon Benet met her fate at the hands of a family member and that Patsy wrote the note. I find it appalling she was not charged. There is absoloutly nothing that I have seen as regards the case that would indicate an outsider. On the 23rd of December a 911 call was placed from the Ramsay home to the police. It has never been explained. I think (my own opinion) that someone perhaps wanted to see how fast the emergency services could get to the Ramsey home the alternative being that someone needed the police, Patsy was one of two people who answered the door as the party was going on , the police did not even go inside. John Ramsay contaminated every piece of evidince practically from the get go ably assisted by the inept police who allowed all sorts of friends to come wandering through the house, it was abysmal. They even removed things from the home before the investigation could get going. If Boulder police had done their job properly then most of this sad spectacle could have been avoided.

There are some great sites out there on the net with tons of information. Immerse yourself in it and use logic and a good dollop of common sense. Don’t even get me started on that Abomination Karr. And Fleet White one of the two other men who ‘searched’ the Ramsey home with JR and who has since then had a dramatic falling out with them, knows more than he is letting on as well. Time for him to open his mouth I feel.

Exactamente, Solar; excellent synopsis….!!

Morf and AK; the parents actually refused to take polys….stalled the police/LE/FBI for months…then Patsy took one administered by ED GELB….and "passed it"…

He is a nutcase and one of the biggest liars on the planet…

http://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-036.shtml

They wouldn’t take the FBI ones, of course…evah…..

CONTRAST THIS WITH ADAM WALSH’S PARENTS, POLLY KLASS’S PARENTS, ETC. who took any poly or answered ALL questions asked of them IMMEDIATELY to clear themselves so their childs’ killer could be found…

, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:35 pm

And Mr. Bungle, you crack me up, you are gonna be blaming everything on Jack T…………… where you been hanging out, haha*

I’m not the one blaming Jack Tarrance for it…THEY are! Barto claims the handwriting’s a match…no joke. Here’s their most recent discussions:

http://denniskaufman.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3527120&trail=450

It’s obviously ridiculous, but it’s just another incident they want to tie Tarrance to.

Please continue the sensible discussion.

Wow, they really know of no boundaries, do they?

morf, if there’s a murder and Jack may have been within 200 miles of it, they’ll blame him for it. It’s truly sickening.

I’ll just chime in and say that I, too, don’t believe that Burke was involved…it just doesn’t seem possible given the extent of the injuries, though I guess stranger things have happened.

Zamantha, Subject: JonBenet Ramsey Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:35 pm

What do we know about the DNA?

Nachtsider, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:03 pm

Lawrence Schiller Book (1999). A slightly different version of this conversation is reported in a review by the Boston Globe: “[Boulder Police Detective Melissa] Hickman listened to the tape and wrote down what she heard.
" ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’ That was clearly Patsy’s voice. Then, in the distance, there was another voice, which sounded like JonBenet’s brother.
" ‘Please, what do I do?’ Burke said.
" ‘We’re not speaking to you,’ Hickman heard John Ramsey say.
" Patsy screamed again. ‘Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus.’
" And then, more clearly, Burke said, ‘What did you find?’ "

Doesn’t necessarily indicate guilt.

"Help me, Jesus." = words of a distraught mother whose daughter is gone
"We’re not speaking to you." = words of a distraught father trying to shield his son
"What did you find?" = reference to finding the ransom note – remember, Patsy found the ransom note first, then discovered her daughter was missing

As for why they said Burke was asleep, again, the ‘shielding their son’ hypothesis works just fine. In any case, the FBI and Secret Service didn’t pick up Burke or John’s voices on that tape.

I think (my own opinion) that someone perhaps wanted to see how fast the emergency services could get to the Ramsey home the alternative being that someone needed the police, Patsy was one of two people who answered the door as the party was going on , the police did not even go inside.

Solar, are you suggesting that a family member planned on harming the girl at least two days in advance? I can very begrudgingly buy the parents accidentally killing their little girl, but premeditation? That doesn’t fly in my book.

sandy betts, Subject: JBR Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:59 pm

What do we know about the DNA?

The DNA was found under her fingernails and on her under garment. One sample matched the other, meaning it could have been one person who killed her. That person was not anyone in the Ramsey family.

Parents do not kill their children in the way she was killed.

Last Thursday and again on Sunday, Aphrodite Jones had a TV show on the ID channel ,about JBR. It was the best one that I had seen, proving that the parents or Burke had nothing to do with this horrible crime.
Being a mother myself ,I could not fathom any parent doing this. Sure there have been parents who have killed their children, but not in this manner.

I posted about that show on Zodiackiller.com last week.
Tracer’s,( whom I admire very much), gave a link to the show. Perhaps she can do that here ?
The show had evidence that was never made public, like shoe prints from two different shoes. One being a High Tech boot. It was also proven that a person could get in to that basement without a problem. A overly fat person I doubt could do it ( such as Santa ).
Hundreds of people came to see the home decorated for Christmas as some kind of a tour, just days before.
The killer could have been one of those people, he would then know the lay out of their home, and where the basment was ( the window which was broken, would be easy access.)

I also posted that soon after JBR was murdered, my granddaughter phoned me to tell me what she found on the internet.
It was a picture of JBR on the basement floor, with a baseball bat near her head. There was also a cypher below her picture. I didn’t have a computer at that time , so I asked her describe the cypher which was done in Zodiac’s style.
It was easy for me to decode it, because I had the solved cyphers that the Harden’s had solved.
It spelled Zodiac. I thought that the Z could have wanted to claim her as one of his victims. But for him to have a picture of JBH on the basement flour, he would either had to be there to take that picture, or got it from someone he knew.
Only the killer could have taken that picture. The pictures that were in the tabloids, were not JBR in the basement . I asked my granddaughter to copy that picture and send it to me , she didn’t have a copier. I asked her to find that site again and write it down, it was gone !

I did write to Alex Hunter who was the DA handling the case, and told him about it. It was disregarded as were so many other things in that case. Its too bad that Patsy wasn’t alive to see the family cleared in the case.

Who ever the killer was, he is probably still alive, and I doubt very much that this was his first murder, or his last.
Shortly before the JBR case, we here in Calif. had two in home murders of young girls. One was Jennifer Lin in Castro Valley Ca. the other was in San Francisco Ca. I don’t remember her name.
I sometimes think that these could have been trial runs for the JBR killer. All 3 are still unsolved.

( Just thinking out of the box.)

Zamantha, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:46 pm

This Thread is interesting. Always breaks my heart to see JonBenet’s picture. What a darling little girl with so much promise ahead of her. I have not followed this case but find it very interesting. Thanks Sandy for your last posts on the subject, very interesting. Would love to hear others ideas on this.

sandy betts, Subject: JBR Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:10 am

Zam, True she was so very pretty. People criticized her mother for putting her in all those pageants.
Patsy had stage 4 cancer at that time, maybe she felt that she couldn’t wait for JonBenet to do this when she got older, because Patsy may not live much longer ?

JonBenet was a Leo, I know a lot about Leo females because I am one. Most love center stage !
JB looked very comfortable on stage , her mother let her do what JB loved doing. It was a lot of time they got to spend together, for their short time on this earth.
Sure this may have gotten the attention of the nut case who killed her, but I doubt that even entered their minds. This case was a tragedy all the way around.

Dreamnine, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 am

This case is one of the greatest mysteries of modern times…

FWIW, after reading as much as I can about it, I don’t believe it was the parents.

Very sad case.

sandy betts, Subject: JBR Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:37 pm

Have you ever taken a long look at the "3" page ransom note ? I have, and it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck when you really look at it.
Oddly enough it has the check mark r that the Z was known for, as well as the 3 stroke K, M, D,U,and W.
I know it seems like one heck of a stretch, but the Z did state that he has been to Colorado before !

John Ramsey’s extended business was also just south of San Francisco !

zodio, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Sun May 01, 2011 1:44 am

Carefull Sandy, you’re starting to sound like Nanette. Soon you’ll be writing ‘Z’ killed Black Dahlia.

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Sun May 01, 2011 7:26 am

Have you ever taken a long look at the "3" page ransom note ? I have, and it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck when you really look at it.
Oddly enough it has the check mark r that the Z was known for, as well as the 3 stroke K, M, D,U,and W.
I know it seems like one heck of a stretch, but the Z did state that he has been to Colorado before !

John Ramsey’s extended business was also just south of San Francisco !

Do you have the name and address of that bizz?

sandy betts, Subject: Ramsey Sun May 01, 2011 1:12 pm

Have you ever taken a long look at the "3" page ransom note ? I have, and it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck when you really look at it.
Oddly enough it has the check mark r that the Z was known for, as well as the 3 stroke K, M, D,U,and W.
I know it seems like one heck of a stretch, but the Z did state that he has been to Colorado before !

John Ramsey’s extended business was also just south of San Francisco !

Do you have the name and address of that bizz?

Hi TF, I believe its called Access Graphics, I will look for it in my research papers.

sandy betts, Subject: Ramsey case Sun May 01, 2011 1:20 pm

Carefull Sandy, you’re starting to sound like Nanette. Soon you’ll be writing ‘Z’ killed
Black Dahlia.

LOL, how do you know he didn’t ?????

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Sun May 01, 2011 1:55 pm

Have you ever taken a long look at the "3" page ransom note ? I have, and it will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck when you really look at it.
Oddly enough it has the check mark r that the Z was known for, as well as the 3 stroke K, M, D,U,and W.
I know it seems like one heck of a stretch, but the Z did state that he has been to Colorado before !

John Ramsey’s extended business was also just south of San Francisco !

Do you have the name and address of that bizz?

Hi TF, I believe its called Access Graphics, I will look for it in my research papers.

Thanks Sandy and if you find the actual adress I will be thankfull if you could post it. I will try to find it as well.

I´m interested in this case because my POI had a very close relative who lived less than 5 minutes from The Ramseys at the time of her murder, and on top of it, I suspect that my POI liked very young girls as well as murder.

zodio, Subject: Re: JonBenet Ramsey Sun May 01, 2011 7:38 pm

Sandy,
I sure hope he didn’t or the 3 stooges may have tripped-up and discoverd the truthe.
"Jack is the most prolific killer of all time -oh my!"

sandy betts, Subject: Ramsey’s Mon May 02, 2011 2:29 am

Wow TF that is very interesting , if anyone can find it , its you. But I will look and see if I can find it .
I am thinking it was in San Mateo ( that is south of S.F.)