On September 30th 1969, 11 days prior to the murder of Paul Stine, a Chinese Yellow Cab driver in San Francisco picked up a fare at the Fairmont Hotel. The address is 950 Mason Street, supposedly where Zodiac picked up Paul Stine. The Fairmont is 0.4 miles from the Westin St Francis. The passenger rode in the front seat and asked the driver to go to Presidio Heights. Nearing the destination the passenger made a late change and asked the taxicab driver to continue. He initially asked the cabbie to go to the Washington and Locust intersection, just two blocks shy of Washington and Maple, but at the last minute asked the driver to proceed to Arguello into the west gate, saying "my girl left my car there." He pulled out a revolver, robbed 30-35 dollars and then locked the cabbie in the trunk. However the gunman relinquished the keys of the cab, when the taxicab driver pleaded he may suffocate, although he didn’t let him out of the trunk. Fortunately he was discovered by military police.
Unfortunately he described the man as Caucasian, about 24 yrs, 5’9", black hair and weighing about 130-140 pounds, the last of which seems a little shy of the perceived Zodiac weight.
On viewing the Paul Stine murder composite sketch, he said his observations differed, the man had longer hair, wore no glasses and was thinner. San Francisco Police Captain Martin Lee said there was an "amazing similarity’ in the MO and "I’m inclined to believe it was Zodiac." I agree the MO is very similar, but the weight of the subject is way off, leading me to believe Captain Martin Lee is being extremely optimistic, unless Zodiac went to Weight Watchers and went on a starvation diet, coupled with running 1,000 miles a day. Nevertheless an interesting story I had never heard before.
Nevertheless I do agree with Captain Martin Lee in one respect when it comes to eyewitness recollections, in that they are not very accurate. He states "No two persons see the same thing, no matter what visual matter is involved. He has worked cases where a suspect who looked almost like a midget to one person, was seen by another witness as something of a giant. And when it comes to fast moving, emotion charged occurrences, you’d sometimes think witnesses were describing altogether different happenings."
Could be a good argument for a Zodiac team
There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer
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Unlikely the Zodiac, yet a very similar MO just a few days prior, the pick up area and drop off area, the late change of destination and the gun, however I suspect if it was Zodiac, then this taxicab driver would be dead.
Wonder if Z could have been "copycatting"? Also, I appreciate the quote from Capt. Lee in re the unreliability of witness descriptions. Again, let me express my doubt that Bryan Hartnell was able to describe Z’s eye/hair color accurately, given Z was wearing his infamous hood.
Wonder if Z could have been "copycatting"? Also, I appreciate the quote from Capt. Lee in re the unreliability of witness descriptions. Again, let me express my doubt that Bryan Hartnell was able to describe Z’s eye/hair color accurately, given Z was wearing his infamous hood.
Cecelia Shepard also described the hair color. David Collins (Retired Napa County Sheriff) speaking on ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’ documentary in 2007;
"She said: Brian and I were here on the blanket, down by the water and we’re just enjoying the afternoon having a nice time talking and I saw this guy, he was coming down the hillside and he seemed to stop and watch us, looking at us, and I said what distance, how far away was he, and she pointed to an area and I said that’s about 200-300 yards away, she said that’s where I first saw him. And then as we continued enjoying the afternoon watching the water, reading, I glanced and noticed he would get closer and closer, and pretty soon he was within 75-100 feet away, and I told Brian that guy has come down here. And then she looked again and she said he had gone, and I said where did he go, she said he stepped behind a tree. And I asked her if she saw him clearly before he put the hood on and she said she did, and I said what did he look like, and she said well he…I said what color was his hair, she said it was brown. What race was he…he was white, and I said how about his eyes, could you see the color of his eyes and she said no he had dark glasses on underneath the hood. But she said his hair hung down across his forehead and was showing through the eye-holes"……David Collins (Retired Napa County Sheriff) speaking on ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’ documentary in 2007 ….. "The information I am relaying to you now, is information I got directly from Cecelia Shepard. It is accurate for what she told me, because I kept notes and I immediately did a report the following morning".
Don’t forget Cecelia Shepard was lying on her stomach watching the killer on and off from at least 200 yards away, that is 600 feet, until he went behind the tree 100 feet away. At walking speed this is 1 minute 50 seconds. He was unmasked the entire time and if Cecelia Shepard says his hair was brown I believe her. Dave Collins took notes at the scene, so this is not faded memory.
Wonder if Z could have been "copycatting"? Also, I appreciate the quote from Capt. Lee in re the unreliability of witness descriptions. Again, let me express my doubt that Bryan Hartnell was able to describe Z’s eye/hair color accurately, given Z was wearing his infamous hood.
Cecelia Shepard also described the hair color. David Collins (Retired Napa County Sheriff) speaking on ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’ documentary in 2007;
"She said: Brian and I were here on the blanket, down by the water and we’re just enjoying the afternoon having a nice time talking and I saw this guy, he was coming down the hillside and he seemed to stop and watch us, looking at us, and I said what distance, how far away was he, and she pointed to an area and I said that’s about 200-300 yards away, she said that’s where I first saw him. And then as we continued enjoying the afternoon watching the water, reading, I glanced and noticed he would get closer and closer, and pretty soon he was within 75-100 feet away, and I told Brian that guy has come down here. And then she looked again and she said he had gone, and I said where did he go, she said he stepped behind a tree. And I asked her if she saw him clearly before he put the hood on and she said she did, and I said what did he look like, and she said well he…I said what color was his hair, she said it was brown. What race was he…he was white, and I said how about his eyes, could you see the color of his eyes and she said no he had dark glasses on underneath the hood. But she said his hair hung down across his forehead and was showing through the eye-holes"……David Collins (Retired Napa County Sheriff) speaking on ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking’ documentary in 2007 ….. "The information I am relaying to you now, is information I got directly from Cecelia Shepard. It is accurate for what she told me, because I kept notes and I immediately did a report the following morning".Don’t forget Cecelia Shepard was lying on her stomach watching the killer on and off from at least 200 yards away, that is 600 feet, until he went behind the tree 100 feet away. At walking speed this is 1 minute 50 seconds. He was unmasked the entire time and if Cecelia Shepard says his hair was brown I believe her. Dave Collins took notes at the scene, so this is not faded memory.
It is faded memory. He never made a report. Collins also said it was Cecilia who was behind the composite and they showed that composite to the 3 girls on the beach. Police aren’t infallible.
But, no matter what, at LB the guy had dark brown hair. Whatever the reason. Bryan didn’t make it up, prior to any sort of shock–and he stood and talked to the man. It wasn’t in passing and it wasn’t brief.
Zodiac could have been in more disguise when he killed Paul. The bulkiness could have been due more to his attire.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Thanks UK very interesting! This account is new to me. This description is similar to what Isobel Watson described in her encounter with a possible Z. It sounds like a composite was not done with the cab drivers description as well as Isobel’s. Too bad, it would be interesting to see the similarities and differences with the Z composite.
If you believe Z is responsible for the Bates murder, then you must believe his hair was brown, as that was the color of the hair sample examined by the FBI. The subsequent witness observations would seem to support this.
Wonder if Z could have been "copycatting"? Also, I appreciate the quote from Capt. Lee in re the unreliability of witness descriptions. Again, let me express my doubt that Bryan Hartnell was able to describe Z’s eye/hair color accurately, given Z was wearing his infamous hood.
Did the story hit the news at all before the murder of Stine? If it were in the papers, then anybody could have copied this incident. If it hadn’t been made public, who could have copied this? Would have had to be a cop I would think.
A few minutes ago on a toilet not very far, far away….
I think that the story UKSpycatcher relayed in the initial post has elements from two different cab robberies. I do recall that an Asian cabbie was robbed near the Presidio but I think it happened months before Paul Stine was murdered. This is the cabbie robbery that happened just before the Stine incident where the driver was put in the trunk.
Here is the link http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.ph … u=14983612
If memory serves there were other cab muggings and even a murder which took place not too long before Stine, all of which could have inspired Z in one way or another. I’d even speculate that the fact that the attack, considered in isolation, would have looked fairly run-of-the-mill was part of the reason why he opted for this particular approach. He specifically did not opt for the BRS/LB tactic of identifying himself (as himself, one could say) immediately afterwards. What this means one may debate, but I digress: This particular incident seemingly didn’t inspire him, unless it was covered by the papers prior to the publication of the article above.
I highly doubt the attack itself (the one we’re discussing here) was committed by Z, for several reasons. But mainly because I have a hard time seeing a failed attempt on his part ending up like this. If he for one reason or another had to abort his mission, he would have done so by leaving the cab as a regular customer, not by drawing attention to himself and leaving a witness alive.
If memory serves there were other cab muggings and even a murder which took place not too long before Stine, all of which could have inspired Z in one way or another. I’d even speculate that the fact that the attack, considered in isolation, would have looked fairly run-of-the-mill was part of the reason why he opted for this particular approach. He specifically did not opt for the BRS/LB tactic of identifying himself (as himself, one could say) immediately afterwards. What this means one may debate, but I digress: This particular incident seemingly didn’t inspire him, unless it was covered by the papers prior to the publication of the article above.
I highly doubt the attack itself (the one we’re discussing here) was committed by Z, for several reasons. But mainly because I have a hard time seeing a failed attempt on his part ending up like this. If he for one reason or another had to abort his mission, he would have done so by leaving the cab as a regular customer, not by drawing attention to himself and leaving a witness alive.
Michael Cole posted an interesting article on his site regarding murders in San Francisco in 1969.
http://zodiacrevisited.com/interesting- … homicides/
“I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.“
Michael Cole posted an interesting article on his site regarding murders in San Francisco in 1969.
Very interesting indeed – a couple of those murders happened not far from the Stine scene too. And as Cole points out, the area around the Presidio sort of stands out on that map – a map Z could have easily seen.
Good stuff – and an important reminder: Nearly a hundred people were killed in SF that year. That’s a lot of murders. Z certainly wasn’t the only perp in town.
Wow, what are the odds? Two different Yellow Cab drivers robbed of $30 odd dollars and stuffed in their own trunk on the same night. I’m going to see what I can find in the Chronicle about these robberies.
