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Washington & Maple

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morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
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Zodiac directed the cab to Washington & Maple,but for an unknown reason, made Stine go one block further to Wash & Cherry. Later, when Z writes about it, he does not mentions Wash & Cherry,but rather Wash & Maple again. A couple reasons possibly. One, he wasn’t familiar with the area,and didn’t know that Cherry was the street a block up, or, he wanted to call attention to Washington & Maple for some reason. As an experiment, I am looking for any mentions of Washinton & Maple in CA newspapers in Sf, and in other towns. Found one mention in Santa Cruz, posted here. Is there any other Wash & Maples in CA?

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : January 10, 2016 6:59 pm
(@anonymous)
Posts: 1772
Noble Member
 

Washington Street and Maple Ave, Oakland
@37.7888274,-122.2567335,11463m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x808f80b78f6fdbf3:0x1e9564b6df80987!2m2!1d-122.2762802!2d37.7986232!1m5!1m1!1s0x808f864c8903653d:0xcac900c383bd206c!2m2!1d-122.2043496!2d37.7979558!3e2?hl=en”> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Washi … !3e2?hl=en

Washington St + Maple Street San Diego

@32.7449719,-117.1878754,10259m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x80d954dc0aec4db3:0x257d4547bc03123d!2m2!1d-117.1639174!2d32.7498557!1m5!1m1!1s0x80d9547d240f5eef:0xaab519d2fb210e59!2m2!1d-117.1238355!2d32.7327663?hl=en”> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Washi … 7663?hl=en

Washington St + Maple St, Napa

@38.2937249,-122.3078123,2393m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085065cec67e031:0x60c3967a861c7c39!2m2!1d-122.2921477!2d38.2972982!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085064e3a5650ad:0x2109c5715bdebc45!2m2!1d-122.3031542!2d38.2919143?hl=en”> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Washi … 9143?hl=en

 
Posted : January 10, 2016 7:39 pm
joku
 joku
(@joku)
Posts: 205
Estimable Member
 

I was pondering this very question. Zodiac must have realised that the cab ended at the corner of Washington and Cherry Streets. Yet he specifically points out Washington & Maple.

Firstly, I think Zodiac may have chosen the Washington and Maple corner due to the surrounding properties. It’s a big risk to committ a murder in a quiet neighbourhood with large houses full of windows. So, he may have scouted for a spot with the least danger of being seen.

At 3839 Washington there is (and was in 1969) the Presidio Hill School. Schools usually can be expected to be empty on Saturday nights so this may have been the determining factor for Zodiac.

At 3800 Washington there’s the Le Petit Trianon mansion. Compared to other properties on the street, it’s appears more robust, at least on the outside. So one could expect that a gun shot would not be heard as easily by the people inside. There’s also the fact that the mansion is historically significant for the city. It seems Z wanted to strike in SF to cause maximal fear in people – for that some central place would obviously be the best, but then the risk would also be extreme. For that reason I think he chose affluent but peaceful Presidio Heights. To do his thing in front of a significant building would also permanently etch him to the history of that city landmark and "tarnish" it.

 
Posted : January 28, 2018 7:35 am
(@xcaliber)
Posts: 653
Honorable Member
 

All interesting points, Joku, particularly the Presidio Hill School angle.

Not sure about the 3800 Wash significant building angle, since most San Franciscans wouldn’t think of it as a landmark (though architecture buffs obviously would).

Definitely an intriguing Washington & Maple Santa Cruz catch form Morf.

Also one more thought – committing a murder outside a school, even an empty one, might have sent a major message, considering his threats.

 
Posted : January 28, 2018 8:15 am
joku
 joku
(@joku)
Posts: 205
Estimable Member
 

Also one more thought – committing a murder outside a school, even an empty one, might have sent a major message, considering his threats.

Good point, didn’t come to think of it in light of his future school bus bomb letters.

 
Posted : January 29, 2018 3:14 am
(@xcaliber)
Posts: 653
Honorable Member
 

Joku is it clear that he pre-planned to be dropped off there (either on Maple or Cherry) or could he have announced another destination to the driver but changed it during the trip?

 
Posted : January 29, 2018 4:22 am
(@xcaliber)
Posts: 653
Honorable Member
 

Spent a few hours near the scene yesterday. Here is the Presidio gate and about fifty yards inside the left turn where the motorcycles would have doubled back on the way to Julius Kahn.

 
Posted : October 14, 2018 9:59 pm
Quicksilver
(@quicksilver)
Posts: 76
Trusted Member
 

I hope I am posting in the correct thread. I was thinking about Z’s methods of operation. His murders seem to be a hunting expedition. The murders seem to be a chance meeting. He escaped by car. Paul Stein’s murder seems to be an outlier. What bothers me is why would Zodiac park his car in the Presidio area and somehow make his way to Mason and Geary to be picked up by a cab? It is guessed he did this by bus. It doesn’t make any sense to me given his previous actions. Could it be that Zodiac was not the person that Paul Stein picked up that night? Could it have been someone that that was just getting a cab ride to Washington and Maple? Was Zodiac hunting in that area and hailed Paul Stein after he dropped off his fare? Could it be that Zodiac just stopped Stein at Washington and Cherry shot him through the window and opened the door to get the pieces of Stein’s shirt? I do not think I have seen or read any proof that Zodiac was actually sitting in the cab or for a fact that it was he that was picked up at Mason and Geary. These thoughts do not solve the case in anyway. For me, it reconciles some issues about the case. I would love to hear some feedback.

 
Posted : February 6, 2019 2:47 am
Marshall
(@marshall)
Posts: 643
Honorable Member
 

I hope I am posting in the correct thread. I was thinking about Z’s methods of operation. His murders seem to be a hunting expedition. The murders seem to be a chance meeting. He escaped by car. Paul Stein’s murder seems to be an outlier. What bothers me is why would Zodiac park his car in the Presidio area and somehow make his way to Mason and Geary to be picked up by a cab? It is guessed he did this by bus. It doesn’t make any sense to me given his previous actions. Could it be that Zodiac was not the person that Paul Stein picked up that night? Could it have been someone that that was just getting a cab ride to Washington and Maple? Was Zodiac hunting in that area and hailed Paul Stein after he dropped off his fare? Could it be that Zodiac just stopped Stein at Washington and Cherry shot him through the window and opened the door to get the pieces of Stein’s shirt? I do not think I have seen or read any proof that Zodiac was actually sitting in the cab or for a fact that it was he that was picked up at Mason and Geary. These thoughts do not solve the case in anyway. For me, it reconciles some issues about the case. I would love to hear some feedback.

I thought the cab meter was still running. Had someone else been in the cab, paid, and left, the meter would’ve been reset.

 
Posted : February 6, 2019 3:06 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

I hope I am posting in the correct thread. I was thinking about Z’s methods of operation. His murders seem to be a hunting expedition. The murders seem to be a chance meeting. He escaped by car. Paul Stein’s murder seems to be an outlier. What bothers me is why would Zodiac park his car in the Presidio area and somehow make his way to Mason and Geary to be picked up by a cab? It is guessed he did this by bus. It doesn’t make any sense to me given his previous actions. Could it be that Zodiac was not the person that Paul Stein picked up that night? Could it have been someone that that was just getting a cab ride to Washington and Maple? Was Zodiac hunting in that area and hailed Paul Stein after he dropped off his fare? Could it be that Zodiac just stopped Stein at Washington and Cherry shot him through the window and opened the door to get the pieces of Stein’s shirt? I do not think I have seen or read any proof that Zodiac was actually sitting in the cab or for a fact that it was he that was picked up at Mason and Geary. These thoughts do not solve the case in anyway. For me, it reconciles some issues about the case. I would love to hear some feedback.

The Zodiac Killer mailed the shirt piece to the Chronicle two days later, stating "I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt". The trip sheet filled in by Paul Stine was recorded as a fare to Washington & Maple. Had Zodiac just approached the taxicab after another passenger had left and shot Paul Stine, he wouldn’t have been aware of the Washington & Maple entered into the trip sheet, and likely would have stated "I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Cherry St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt." The Zodiac Killer’s assertion of Washington & Maple in the letter, tallying with the trip sheet is a robust argument that he travelled in the taxicab that night.

Also, Paul Stine was on a run through to another customer at 500 9th Avenue, so not only would he have knocked off the meter before the Zodiac had chance to approach and shoot him, but the Zodiac would have to have done it in fairly quick time after the other passenger left and before Stine pulled away. We would then have to believe Zodiac shot Stine under the nose of the other passenger – and oblivious to this person, just started tearing the shirt and wiping down the taxicab. If he hadn’t used a silencer, then there would have been a possible 4th eyewitnesses at the intersection of Washington & Cherry.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : February 6, 2019 3:27 am
(@cathyo)
Posts: 18
Eminent Member
 

Washington and Maple vs Washington and Cherry:
– my mind sees Maple and Cherry as streets named after trees. Then it goes to President George Washington (SF has streets named after US Presidents), and then the old story we heard about Washington cutting down a cherry tree. Teachers would bring up the story during February during Washington’s birthday, and in SF, it is also the time of pink cherry tree blossoms, where we young students would tie in the blossoms into art work during that month as part of the lesson.

The cherry tree story is now seen as a myth. Did Zodiac know that and become upset about it? Is it any statement about the President, or about liars vs the truth? Was he mad at his teacher for telling him a lie?

https://www.mountvernon.org/library/dig … tree-myth/

Also, in the SF Bay Area growing up, field trips to the Japanese Tea Gardens, with cherry trees in blossom, are common for school children, as well as tourists. It could be a truly magical experience for a young child, seeing the wonderment of the bushes, trees, flowers, fresh air. It could be a break from bullies and mean kids on a field trip day with enough chaperones, so a good memory for the killer. Or a bad memory, if something happened, someone was cruel or mean to him. Basically, it could be a make it or break it memory day of good or bad that changed his life. Remember back to your own youth, what kids were like, any memories of field trips. If the Z had ever met with a priest/chaplain, or therapist/psychiatrist, they may have asked and taken him back to this memory, good or bad, from his youth.
https://www.marinmommies.com/spring-blo … tea-garden

The murder date was on 10/11/69. So a time when kids are back in school, could be taking a field trip, or they waited until Spring. Around Columbus Day, another holiday studied in school, like Presidents Day, that wouldn’t be studied at home really with parents. Maybe he enjoyed learning at school on these holidays, and his parents berated him about it being useless, stupid, and irrelevant, and ruined the memory for him.

 
Posted : February 6, 2019 3:49 am
Quicksilver
(@quicksilver)
Posts: 76
Trusted Member
 

All good stuff…any theories as to why Zodiac may have parked his car in the Presidio area and went to the Mason / Geary area?

 
Posted : February 11, 2019 10:01 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

In theory, Zodiac could have stalked the area around Washington & Cherry, picked off any random pedestrian and achieved the same goal of murder. Therefore, we can probably conclude that the Zodiac Killer had a prescription for murder that night – he had likely planned to kill a taxicab driver and secure a piece of his shirt within the confines of the vehicle. Knowing he has to hail a taxicab at some point, and direct the driver to his desired location, it is therefore incumbent upon him to position his getaway vehicle in an area of least or limited visibility (assuming he doesn’t live in San Francisco). If we look at the location, it may give us the answer to why he chose this area. It has the safety net of a wooded park, it is near a major highway (Highway 101) and you are out of San Francisco within minutes over the Golden Gate Bridge. The Zodiac Killer clearly planned his Lake Berryessa attack well in advance, and this attack was no different. He was spotted running into the park at Julius Khan playground just after 10:00 pm, negating any idea he had a car parked somewhere by Jackson and Maple. He then headed east through the park. I agree with Rex wholeheartedly – that Zodiac escaped somewhere near the Lyon Street Steps, near Presidio Boulevard.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : February 12, 2019 3:59 am
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
Reputable Member
 

I never read anywhere that Zodiac was spotted entering the park after Stine’s murder!

 
Posted : February 13, 2019 2:14 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
Posts: 717
Prominent Member
 

This was Zodiac, unless somebody matching Zodiac’s description by four previous people just happened to be entering the park just minutes after the murder.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : February 13, 2019 3:00 am
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