Stine’s shirt was ripped by the Zodiac as to use as proof that he was the killer…..my issue that I can’t let go that Z must have been covered in blood….how did Fouke not notice?….he gave such a detailed description of Z when he talked to him…..welsh descent, pants, jacket, shoes…..it amazes me…..

If Cheri Jo Bates’s diary was found in Bud Kelley’s home, where is it now? Who found it? What did that person do with it?

Those are all good questions. Funny enough my POI lived at a road called ‘capricorn’ near a Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murder location of interest.

I presume whoever was searching Bud Kelly’s home on behalf of LE returned it to Riverside PD. Apparently Bud Kelly took over the CJB case so he sort of has a legit reason to have access to it. However because of how things have gone for Bud Kelly it doesn’t look good that he had it in his home.

Fred Manalli apparently had incriminating S&M drawings of a SRHM victim found in his home.

Isn’t it strange how all these odd pieces of evidence appear and wander off?

Kelly mentioned the diary to a journalist in 2008. It wasn’t "found in his house."

Detective Kelley was interviewed in the Inland Empire magazine article "Who Killed Cheri Jo." The reporter writes, "The only piece of evidence from a homicide case that Granville "Bud" Kelley ever took home was Cheri Bates’ diary." Kelley said, "I felt bad, like I was invading her privacy, even if it was my job."

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiack … 713#p99713

Back to the OP: Zodiac lingered in the cab with Stine for quite a while — at one point, the Robbins kids thought Zodiac was stabbing him. What they most likely saw was Zodiac removing the piece of shirt.

Kelly mentioned the diary to a journalist in 2008. It wasn’t "found in his house."

Detective Kelley was interviewed in the Inland Empire magazine article "Who Killed Cheri Jo." The reporter writes, "The only piece of evidence from a homicide case that Granville "Bud" Kelley ever took home was Cheri Bates’ diary." Kelley said, "I felt bad, like I was invading her privacy, even if it was my job."

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiack … 713#p99713

Back to the OP: Zodiac lingered in the cab with Stine for quite a while — at one point, the Robbins kids thought Zodiac was stabbing him. What they most likely saw was Zodiac removing the piece of shirt.

I wonder if they saw him wipe the cab before or after that? I’ve been thinking, what if he ripped the back of the shirt precisely because it had less blood on it, in order to use it as a rag to clean up potential finger prints? Meaning he had no rag on himself ready to use. The kids claim they saw some kind of white rag, which could have been the ripped shirt. That it had blood on it was just an unplanned result, which he decided to use to his advantage afterwards. Would make sense for him to want to get a piece not full of blood to try and keep his hands cleaner as he used it. One might think it would be risky to send a piece of cloth he handled, but I’m not sure lifting finger prints from a bloody shirt was likely, and at that point too valuable as proof to not use it. Heck, a quick wash wouldn’t have removed the blood anyway, but it would have removed any prints. Although that being said, sending the driver’s ID or something like that could have been safer, but maybe he thought the shirt was more fun.

In that case, the bloody shirt pieces were more of an afterthought. But, it was definitely risky to keep that on himself until he got to safety. He had a jacket though, so he could stash it inside.

Hypothesis:

If Zodiac did not have a rag with him that means this murder was not planned. That means the shirt piece is the rag he used to clean himself up with and then he mailed the shirt piece in later.

There was no phone call. That means Zodiac likely had a bolt hole nearby.

So if the murder was not planned why did the Zodiac murder him? Rage could explain it but this would be a huge risk with no cloth to clean himself up.

Also the gunshot sound in the vehicle must have been deafening unless he had a silencer.

I would propose this. Zodiac felt he had to murder Stine because Stine could identify him.

Which means Zodiac hailed Stine’s cab to escape from something incriminating and felt Stine had to die because Stine could be a witness.

So the question then becomes, what was he escaping from downtown? What did he do that he felt could link him to a crime?

Mailing a Zodiac letter? An aborted Zodiac attack? (yet he didn’t seem to have a rag… or he used the rag already).

Hypothesis:

If Zodiac did not have a rag with him that means this murder was not planned. That means the shirt piece is the rag he used to clean himself up with and then he mailed the shirt piece in later.

There was no phone call. That means Zodiac likely had a bolt hole nearby.

So if the murder was not planned why did the Zodiac murder him? Rage could explain it but this would be a huge risk with no cloth to clean himself up.

Also the gunshot sound in the vehicle must have been deafening unless he had a silencer.

I would propose this. Zodiac felt he had to murder Stine because Stine could identify him.

Which means Zodiac hailed Stine’s cab to escape from something incriminating and felt Stine had to die because Stine could be a witness.

So the question then becomes, what was he escaping from downtown? What did he do that he felt could link him to a crime?

Mailing a Zodiac letter? An aborted Zodiac attack? (yet he didn’t seem to have a rag… or he used the rag already).

Him deciding to kill Stine suddenly is a possibility. It’s such a risky attack, unusual compared to the previous ones, and in an area where there could have been many witnesses.

It could be that he had intended to threaten Stine to drive somewhere else, and for some reason Stine refused to comply, at which point the attacker decided to eliminate him. This would explain the lack of preparations, the location of the attack being far from ideal, etc. Remember he had threatened to drive around killing people for two nights in the July letters. Maybe he had planned to steal a cab, drive around picking up people and murdering them, and doing so repeatedly for some time. He just failed to steal the cab.

Targets (1968) has Super X ammo in it and you can see it in the trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSc3xAXX5g

It borrows from the Texas Tower Sniper incident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

The Belli Letter from Dec 20 1969 is likely the Zodiac’s true handwriting and is what you would expect from a serial killer in the depressive phase of their cycle. It is during this downward spiral that it is best time to catch them.

Hartnell’s survival and his costume being revealed including the conversation he had with Hartnell was likely the beginning of that depressive phase. He had messed up.

Interestingly enough Whitman had a tumor and in theory it could have caused Whitman to have behavioral problems especially as it was located close to the amygdala.

My POI was scalped by a tree branch and nearly died. He had a 12" scar left on his head. I theorize that if he is the Zodiac he may have explained his compulsions by relating to Whitman’s head injury and then indirectly that Targets movie.

Also it would indicate he felt that following the incident at Lake Berryessa that it wouldn’t take long before he was caught for some reason.

I also made some other connections here but I won’t be putting them out at this time for a few reasons I need to get through first but maybe won’t depending. I would like some things cleared up. Anyway the above should suffice for now. Just my opinion.

Apologies that this is a little tangential to the original purpose of this thread but I know the posters on this thread are much more familiar with this crime than I am. Is it possible taking the shirt piece wasn’t premeditated and that Zodiac took it to wipe Stine’s blood off of himself?