It also doesn’t seem right that the paramedics would leave Paul hanging out of the car while he was still bleeding out.

Paul was pronounced dead at the scene at 22.10. FYI & FWIW. Approx time of shooting 21.55.

He wasn’t reported to be limping when he was observed leaving the cab and walking all the way down Cherry St by the witness nor as he briskly approached Bryan and Cecelia.

Sorry to hark back a bit, but I’ve never been sure about this limp. I think it might have been part of his famous disguise, perhaps, since he could easily figure out how long it would take him to get to where he was going on leaving the scene (yes, back to his dog if you like – wherever) and decide if having a nice easily recognisable character trait like a limp would be worth the trade-off in the amount of time it added to the trip.
See?

Ok lets put aside the ‘how did Paul end up in that position’ argument/debate for a second, what I want to know is, whether done intentionally by Z, or gravity taking over Pauls ‘Dead Weight and he slumped into the door, what difference would it, or does it make? I really don’t mean that disrespectfully to the person who started the thread what-so-ever. My question is a genuine one, would there be any significance if it were able to be shown Zodiac left Paul like that vs Cab door supporting Paul’s weight, Cab door opened, Paul goes with its momentum?

Anyone leaning against a car door would open it, if the lever is pulled to unlock imo..if that answers your question. Paul I guess had at least 140-160 lbs., imo half of it would be enough to do so.

QT

Well just had a quick nose at where your from QT as I had a question in mind to ask you. I see your Austrian. So, here is the question: What the heck are you driving in Austria? (Lol). Can’t be very good designers whoever is designing these car’s. Lean a bit of weight onto the door and it will instantly give way and fully open under the strain of limp bodyweight against it. Must have news reports daily I imagine…. "Todays main news headline: Someone fell out of a car again. That’s all from me…"

Just joking about QT but the underlying issue is serious, do car doors seriously just open if you put a bit of eight on them over there? Can’t think why else you mite say that?

‘if the lever is pulled to unlock..’

Besides a Maserati, I mostly drive my Italian Vespa every day and have sold all the other cars due to recent crisis in Banking, Finance and Antiques industry

The Vespa has no doors.

Regarding Stine: I wonder, if he was shot and sunk onto his steering wheel, how his fare booklet later fell on the floor. Why didn’t they pull Stine out of the cab on the drivers side? No idea what police had done there, but it is really weird what had happened on that crime scene that night..

QT
QT

Regarding Stine: I wonder, if he was shot and sunk onto his steering wheel, how his fare booklet later fell on the floor. Why didn’t they pull Stine out of the cab on the drivers side? No idea what police had done there, but it is really weird what had happened on that crime scene that night..

QT
QT

the gillion dollar question and i have no answer..i f shot in back of head you would be correct and he would have fallen to the steering wheel…if shot in the side with Z in passenger seat they would know that as well..there has to be photos from inside the cab with blood splatter (i know its morbid but it is a crime scene tool) could tell you a lot and so could entry/exit wound..so much has become polluted in regards to all these crimes scenes over the years its becoming difficult to sort out what is fact from theory.(and how much the police are sitting on and will not release-it could be substantial volumes of evidence).far as why not pulling stine out drivers side i have no answer..may be the thought was to limit public exposure to the tragedy and out of respect for paul they decided passenger side be best

Paul was not shot in the back of the head. He was shot in the side of his head.

I thought he was shot right behind the ear.

Yes, behind the ear.

Chappie – your mentioning of fouke saying the zodiac had a "semi-limp" is it possible that Kane had a limp? Possibly from his brain injury. Kinda like a stroke can cause you to limp.

Craig, Kane damaged the left frontal lobe of his brain in his vehicle accident. The Left frontal lobe controls the body speech and motor functions. So yes, it’s very possible that Kane had speech and motion impairment. I lay out the Brain Injury and it’s associated symptoms on my Web Page that can be seen here:

http://wp.me/2ZA7s

Hard to know. They were soaked in blood though weren’t they? Still could have been left by another fare and Z just used them for something?

That was a good question Dag and I’m not sure I’ve seen it asked before. I got a confused impression as well WC reading the chat log regarding Carol’s seemingly definite no regarding were Z was riding in the cab. Given where Paul was shot though it does seem more convenient that the shooter was in the back seat.

WC, were the gloves where you said they were? I’m asking because I can’t remember and for whatever reason I thought they were in the back seat.

As for Z knowing Paul. Is it possible that he knew him but as a fare and not necessarily in everyday life. I mean, could Paul have had recourse to pick up Z up on a few occassions or is that unlikely?

The gloves were found on the floor in the front passenger side of Paul’s cab.

Yes, behind the ear.

So 99% Z did not sit on the passenger front seat, imo..

QT

He wasn’t shot behind the ear, guys.

http://zodiackiller.com/PSROD1.html

The record of death states ‘anterior to the right ear’. In other words, the side of his head forward of the right ear.

That’s right faraday was shot behind the right ear.

Dr. Sue Norris did an autopsy interpretation on Paul Stine at Howard Davis’s site which is now archived on the Wayback Machine.

http://thezodiacmansonconnection.com/autopsy_interpretations.html#Stin e”> http://web.archive.org/web/200911030537 … html#Stine

Dr. Norris’s credentials can be found at the top of the page.

Stine’s is the last one on the page and reads as follows:

– Paul Stine –
The first issue I’d like to address in the autopsy report relates to Mr. Stine’s property. A victim’s property is generally inventoried prior to autopsy as it was in this case. There is a discrepancy between the police report and the coroner’s report. The police report states, "Crime lab’s initial investigation showed that the victim was devoid of any U.S. Currency…." However , the coroner’s office found $4.12 in change on Mr. Stine. I imagine the coins were either overlooked by the crime lab or a typographical error occurred. It should be noted that there are other, less likely, reasons for this discrepancy that I will not delve into for the sake of brevity.

If we take the coroner’s report to be correct this means that Zodiac took Stine’s wallet but left quite a bit of change. From a "staged robbery" perspective this still makes sense since Zodiac fled on foot. Zodiac might not have wanted the extra weight of all that change. He might also have wanted to avoid the attention that jangling coins might draw.

The coroner’s report states that seven keys were found in Mr. Stine’s possession. However, the police report states that the ignition key was taken. I am at a loss to explain why Zodiac would take that specific key and not the others. I would weakly speculate that perhaps it was taken because it was more easily accessible (still in the ignition) or perhaps it was important for Zodiac to "link" himself with the cab rather than with Stine.

In the coroner’s report a summary of Mr. Stine’s body position at the crime scene is found. No mention is made of the passenger door being left open. (This information was not found in the police report either.)

As I (and other posters) have discussed on the message board at ZodiacKiller.com, the coroner’s report refers to "dark marks on the deceased’s dorsal surface (back of) of the left hand." While it can be speculated that these "dark marks" refer to gunpowder residue, I do not believe this to be the case. If this were the situation I would expect the coroner to indicate so in his report rather than using the more vague terminology we see. Similarly, I would expect him to identify the marks as bruising – if that were the case. Unfortunately, no other information is found in the report to suggest what the "dark marks" are.

The findings related to the gunshot wound are not surprising. The bullet entered at the right temple. This is where the anterior/superior (front and top) part or the ear is attached to the head. The bullet trajectory was to the victim’s left and slightly anterior. The bullet came to rest in the muscle of the left temple. The injury to the brain and the fracturing of the skull were not unexpected given the weapon used and its proximity to Stine’s head. More discussion of this issue, including the expert opinion of Bill Baker, can be found on the message board at ZodiacKiller.com.

The last issue I wish to discuss was a finding in the coroner’s report that I cannot yet resolve. Mr. Stine’s lungs were described as follows: "Both lungs are moderately increased in weight. There is congestion at the base and dependant portions. Multiple intraparenchymal hemorrhages are noted." The blood in the lungs does NOT appear to have drained from the head wound. Were this the case the blood should be in the lung air space rather than the parenchyma (which is the lung tissue itself.) Additionally, the position of Stine’s body (with the head approximately at the level of the chest while in Zodiac’s lap and then below the level of the chest, on the floorboard after Zodiac left the scene) would not be conducive to passive blood flow from the head wound into the air space of he lungs.

There are a few possible reasons for this unexpected finding. First, some chronic illnesses can cause this situation. We have no indication that Mr. Stine suffered from any chronic illness associated with intraparenchymal hemorrhage. But I would not expect most investigators to ask about this. It is also possible that Mr. Stine was not aware he had an illness affecting his lungs in this manner, though I believe this is unlikely.

It is possible there was a typographical error in the autopsy report. However, I doubt this to be the case given the overall quality of the report.

While I have not seen this myself, in researching the topic I found brief mention of pulmonary intraparenchymal hemorrhage with strangulation. I do not believe Mr. Stine was strangled, however, as there are no other findings in the autopsy that indicate this to be the case.

Lastly, it is possible for blunt force trauma of the chest to cause this intraparenchymal bleeding. As both lungs were involved, this blunt force trauma would have to have occurred on both sides of Mr. Stine’s chest. There was no mention of other finding that would support this conclusion (such as bruising of the skin or broken ribs) but it is possible for blunt force trauma to occur without these additional findings.

I hope to receive input from a pathologist on the intraparenchymal hemorrhage of the lung as I do not have the experience or the training to confidently state its likely cause.

so multiple gun shots?..interesting and no doubt the body was moved by medical personell (or other) i guess to what was seen in the photo..i guess if sfpd thinks Z was in the front seat it leads to belief stine was comfortable enuff to allow him in front of the cab…i dunno 4 sure but it is a plausible sceniro and may be Z was closing up loose ends…i dont understand the key unless he was a trophy collector and stealing some cash just seems like me an attempt to throw off the investigation