Here is the article that shows when Santa Barbara Sheriff’s office officially linked the D/E murders to Zodiac. It ran on 11/14/72 on various papers throughout CA. The sheriff says that there is a "high degree of probability that Z killed D/E" amd that "I have other evidence which I am not at liberty to disclose at this time".

Man, I would love to know what other evidence they had. I know that Bill Baker has said previously that there is stuff that he can not & will not talk about. Would love to know what that stuff is. :suspect:

Here is the article that shows when Santa Barbara Sheriff’s office officially linked the D/E murders to Zodiac. It ran on 11/14/72 on various papers throughout CA. The sheriff says that there is a "high degree of probability that Z killed D/E" amd that "I have other evidence which I am not at liberty to disclose at this time".

Man, I would love to know what other evidence they had. I know that Bill Baker has said previously that there is stuff that he can not & will not talk about. Would love to know what that stuff is. :suspect:

So would I. I was reading the chronology thread with the latest additions (thanks T and Deb). This article here says the same thing basically so I came looking here to see if we now knew what that evidence may have been. The wording is slightly more expanded and may be different in context. I’m not sure.

"We now have information that may place Zodiac in the Santa Barbara area during the period in question"

That’s kinda oddly worded isn’t it? I mean that seems to imply that they know something or something else happened that points to Zodiac but not necessarily connected to the crime scene. A letter maybe? a phone call? Or, considering the article mentions that the speculation concerning similarities comes after liaising with SF and other areas, is it referring to a Zodiac suspect’s known whereabouts at the time?

There is a press release here-

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SBPressRelease.html

It is an expanded version of what is in the newspaper articles but it still does not answer the specifics of your question, Trav.

Thanks Deb,

It doesn’t answer the specifics but then it can’t because they haven’t been released. It does answer my question though as to whether or not I was reading the info in the article correctly. Certainly seems to make a distinction that whatever the evidence, some of it places him in the area so it’s not just unreleased evidence restricted to finds at the crime scene.

Interesting.

Difficult, ain’t it.
Questions questions.
A couple are tied up on a beach, they escape their bindings and they are shot "with a rifle" – a .22
A couple are tied up on a beach, they do not excape their bindings, they’re stabbed.
Was the perps intention to stab Robert and Linda? Why the difference in the weapons, because Berryessa was better planned? Was there a hood in ’63? Why no letter back then? Why wait 5 1/2 years? Why 370 miles away? Was LInda’s bathing costumed cut with a knife? Was she injured with the knife, post-mortem? Was Robert? The bindings in the D&E case were rope (I believe), not the same as at Berryessa. Because using the open-core line was easier to use? Because it worked better? Why no other reports of a similar MO between the two attacks? Or afterward? A .22 rifle at close range would have certainly had much more stopping power than the little .22 used at LHR, so why the VAST overkill? Robert was shot 11 times and Linda 8 times. Why? Why the attempt to burn them, post-mortem? To hide their identity? To cover up the crime? That’s not very like Berryessa.

We know the circumstances surrounding Berryessa quite well. The only thing I can think of, given the differences in location, the length of time difference, the distance apart of the two attackes, the different weapon…… the only thing I can think is that there’s a letter, or there’s another MO similarity we don’t know about, like the further use of a knife.
Sorry, rambling, my two cents. (Ten bucks.)

A couple are tied up on a beach, they escape their bindings and they are shot "with a rifle" – a .22
A couple are tied up on a beach, they do not excape their bindings, they’re stabbed.
Was the perps intention to stab Robert and Linda? (Ten bucks.)

I don’t know if that’s your own idea Smithy but it’s a really good observation. Sounds pretty obvious when 2 and 2 are put together but I’d certainly never thought of it. I think the other sniper activity in the area at the time draws people towards the rifle, when there is every possibility that the crimes are totally unconnected.
I too considered the possibility of a letter, but I find it very hard to believe that it would remain a secret this far down the line. I am in fact surprised that whatever it is hasn’t been leaked somehow by now – what are the chances over the last 50 years that every single LE officer to cast their eyes over the case never let slip? Admirable, but irksome.
What’s confusing is that surely the Santa Barbara police force shared the info with SF, Napa, or anyone else who had an open case on Z. It’s odd that none of those other forces have acknowledged Z as the perp of this earlier crime at all, without spilling the beans. Why the secrecy?

Difficult, ain’t it.
Questions questions.
A couple are tied up on a beach, they escape their bindings and they are shot "with a rifle" – a .22
A couple are tied up on a beach, they do not excape their bindings, they’re stabbed.
Was the perps intention to stab Robert and Linda? Why the difference in the weapons, because Berryessa was better planned? Was there a hood in ’63? Why no letter back then? Why wait 5 1/2 years? Why 370 miles away? Was LInda’s bathing costumed cut with a knife? Was she injured with the knife, post-mortem? Was Robert? The bindings in the D&E case were rope (I believe), not the same as at Berryessa. Because using the open-core line was easier to use? Because it worked better? Why no other reports of a similar MO between the two attacks? Or afterward? A .22 rifle at close range would have certainly had much more stopping power than the little .22 used at LHR, so why the VAST overkill? Robert was shot 11 times and Linda 8 times. Why? Why the attempt to burn them, post-mortem? To hide their identity? To cover up the crime? That’s not very like Berryessa.

We know the circumstances surrounding Berryessa quite well. The only thing I can think of, given the differences in location, the length of time difference, the distance apart of the two attackes, the different weapon…… the only thing I can think is that there’s a letter, or there’s another MO similarity we don’t know about, like the further use of a knife.
Sorry, rambling, my two cents. (Ten bucks.)

James L. Summer reported, that his son and some friends were at the shack (of Domingos/Edwards) when two bullets were fired at them from the direction of the railroad tracks near the highway. The bullets came close enough, Summer said, so that the boys could hear them whistling through the air.

Stone quarry worker James Lois Coleman, J. C. Reed and ‘Sandy’ drove around the Lompoc and Santa Maria area and, in the evening, they met Vern C. Smith, a quarry worker in Lompoc, in the Rickshaw restaurant, where Belle Reed, J.C. Reeds mother was employed as a waitress. Vern Smith was at the restaurant as well, however left earlier and did Coleman, Reed and ‘Sandy’ then decide to rob him. Sometime around 11 pm, ‘Sandy’ told Smith that they had run out of gas and asked for help near his camper truck in which he lived in San Miguelito Canyon. As Smith filled the gas tank of their stolen car, ‘Sandy’ suddenly stabbed Smith. Stabbed to death with a hunting knife with one stich, injuring the lung. Depth of wound was 3 3/4 inches, comparable to the case of Cheri Jo Bates. When shown such a knife with one sharpened and one jagged side, the physician states that such a knife could not have been used (knife was sharpened on both sides).

I clearly see those two crimes connectid to Domingo/Edwards.

QT

James L. Summer reported, that his son and some friends were at the shack (of Domingos/Edwards) when two bullets were fired at them from the direction of the railroad tracks near the highway. The bullets came close enough, Summer said, so that the boys could hear them whistling through the air.

Interesting.

James – thanks for appreciating that observation – that a stabbing may have been the ultimate goal. I can’t remember reading it anywhere, but I highly doubt that it’s original. After all this time, I bet there’s no original thought left about the parallels (and differences) between the D&E murders and Berryessa…..

Re: the secrecy angle, Mt Averitt’s given a very reasonable (and I suspect well-educated) opinon on the other thread. If there’s a surviving family member unwilling to have information released, a remaining POI (however tangential) and/or some reason to preserve information to protect "an ongoing investigation" then that’s it – we won’t be hearing any more details any time soon.
I agree your stance that if more information had been leaked to other investigative bodies (like Napa for instance) we’d have known about it by now. No doubt.

Count me skeptical.

I certainly understand why the Domingos and Edwards case would be hypothesized as a possible Zodiac case but I’ve never been blown away by the connections. Similar M.O. to a guy that failed to show a consistent M.O., very similar approach to Zodiac at Lake Berryessa and utilized the same ammunition as a guy that used different types of ammunition. Am I missing anything? This occurred 5 1/2 years before any confirmed Zodiac activity and well over 3 years before anything suspected. Lompoc is 4+ hours drive away from confirmed Zodiac activity and 3 hours from Riverside.

Morf has found a ton of similar lover’s lane types of murders across the country, some certainly closer in respect to time, and California was practically crawling with serial killers in the 1960s and 70s. I was reading this morning about the spate of strangulation murders in Wichita during the 1980s and the fact that four or five different serial killers were thought to be operating there overlapping in time. To my knowledge, nobody has even thought to look at Dennis Rader for any of these since he has already confessed to ten murders, despite the fact that he was actively stalking and strangling during the 1980s.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news … n_80933516

I certainly respect Bill Baker but unless there is truly something striking that links the cases forensically like fingerprints, I’m going to remain skeptical. The fact that the "other links to Zodiac" were apparently discovered some time in the early 1970s also doesn’t do much for me. If it’s something mindblowing, is there really a need to keep that disclosed in a 50 year old murder case?

Count me skeptical.

Yes, me too.
It would be a handy thing, to get more resource for your moribund case by relating it to a known "Zodiac" encounter, wouldn’t it?
I to-and-fro about D&E all the time…..

It’s also interesting that (as far as I can recall) Zodiac never claimed this case in the way he did CJB. Of course that could be for two completely opposite reasons – either it’s the case that can crack who he is; or he had nothing to do with it.

It’s also interesting that (as far as I can recall) Zodiac never claimed this case in the way he did CJB. Of course that could be for two completely opposite reasons – either it’s the case that can crack who he is; or he had nothing to do with it.

I was going to mention that as well, James. He certainly wasn’t averse to taking implicit credit after the fact for other crimes that he was publicly speculated to be involved with. I guess you could argue that this public connection to the Zodiac case came at a time (1972) where Z was dormant. Anyone happen to notice when the first mention of a possible connection was reported in the newspapers? I suppose you could also argue that he also wouldn’t want to draw attention to it if it represented a first attempt close to home.

I’m curious if anyone who believes that Z was a classmate of Cheri Jo Bates also believes this to be Zodiac’s work. If he was a true classmate of CJB’s, he presumably would have been 15 or 16 at most in 1963, no? Too young?

It’s also interesting that (as far as I can recall) Zodiac never claimed this case in the way he did CJB. Of course that could be for two completely opposite reasons – either it’s the case that can crack who he is; or he had nothing to do with it.

I was going to mention that as well, James. He certainly wasn’t averse to taking implicit credit after the fact for other crimes that he was publicly speculated to be involved with. I guess you could argue that this public connection to the Zodiac case came at a time (1972) where Z was dormant. Anyone happen to notice when the first mention of a possible connection was reported in the newspapers? I suppose you could also argue that he also wouldn’t want to draw attention to it if it represented a first attempt close to home.

I’m curious if anyone who believes that Z was a classmate of Cheri Jo Bates also believes this to be Zodiac’s work. If he was a true classmate of CJB’s, he presumably would have been 15 or 16 at most in 1963, no? Too young?

I was wondering that too, as in, when this first was mentioned as a possible Zodiac. Or if this is it, or thereabouts – 1972. Can’t comment on the latter because I haven’t formed an opinion if Z was a classmate of CJB’s, do think he killed her, then some days I’m not sure about that but I ‘think’ he did.

The timing, as you pick up on here is interesting maybe. ie ’72 and after he was dormant for about a year. Then he comes back in ’74 and he’s not claiming anything specific, except the count has upped. That’s with a ‘Zodiac’ letter albeit unsigned as such but compared to the ones that followed it might as well have been. IF D&E was his maybe he was done ‘fessing up. He did say he wouldn’t announce anymore but then, as you guys have already said he ‘fessed up to KJ and CJB after that statement so why not D&E?

I like Smithy’s cynical suggestion of a ‘more resources please’ ploy. I’m not convinced but I’m not unconvinced either. I think it has it’s potential merits more so than a lot of similar cases that have been suggested as possibles but is that because it has been suggested in the press by LE? Would I give it a second thought if it had just been suggested here, for example? Mmmmmm I probably would actually.

The hinting at ‘secret’ information intrigues me but that’s normal, I don’t like not knowing something but It’s more really that I’d like to know if it’s an aspect that ‘speaks’ Zodiac which ,we may not have picked up on. It doesn’t really do anything to convince me of the likely-hood of this being a Z crime. If anything it makes me suspicious but then I guess that’s just because of how we operate here. We don’t like, or see the reason, for people with-holding something because you think, what are they hiding, and if it’s done for dramatic effect prior to a reveal, more often than not it’s a damp squib.

IF D&E was his maybe he was done ‘fessing up. He did say he wouldn’t announce anymore but then, as you guys have already said he ‘fessed up to KJ and CJB after that statement so why not D&E?

Zodiac mentions "there are a hell of a lot more down there". Sure leaves it open to many possibilities.

He mentioned shooting a man sitting in a parked car (and KJ) after he said he would no longer announce his murders. Saying he would no longer announce his murders was smart really. It led many to think Zodiac could be responsible for many, many murders he probably had nothing to do with.

He either couldn’t resist the notoriety (he has to tell us about a man he shot and killed after telling us he would no longer do so), and if that is the case, why no mention of D&E–they obviously had no clue who did it….or he wasn’t involved and makes his comments vague–"there are a hell of a lot more down there".