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Vandenberg AFB relationship to this case

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morf13
(@morf13)
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RE: Vandenberg AFB relationship to this case

The Vandnberg AFB is close to this crime scene (as March AFB was close to the Cheri Jo Bates crime scene). Also, there is a possibility that the ammo used in the attack was purchased at Vandenberg. Later, at Lake Berryessa in the Z case, there were the ‘Wingwalker’ boot prints made by zodiac, which could certainly point to an Air Force connection.

At this site: http://www.beachcalifornia.com/surfbch.html
There is discussion of a beach called SURF BEACH and it states that the beach ends at Vandenberg AFB. I also read elsewhere that SURF BEACH is owned by Vandenberg AFB. A couple questions. ANybody know how long Vandenberg AFB owned this land, and where is it in relation to the D/E murder scene? Obviously, that base comes to mind when thinking of the possibility that the bullets in the case were bough there.

By the way, I know some people have discussed that Z likely had an interest in SPACE TRAVEL, NASA, etc. Well at this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg … _Complex_5 It talks about the base being involved in the space exploration program

Checked with a base historian at Vandenberg AFB. They told me the following:

"The U.S. Navy’s Point Arguello facility that was adjacent to Vandenberg, south of the
Santa Ynez River. In 1965 the Navy pulled out and that property became
part of Vandenberg . In 1963 there were no soldiers at Vandenberg AFB."

All stationed at Vandenberg AFB in 1963-
394th Missile Squadron
395th Missile Squadron
576th Strategic Missile Squadron
4315th Combat Training Crew Squadron (Missile)
4392nd Headquarters Aerospace Support Group
4392nd Civil Engineering Squadron
4392nd Combat Defense Squadron
4392nd Communications Squadron
4392nd Consolidated Aircraft Mechanic Squadron
4392nd Transportation Squadron
392nd Aerospace Medical Group
669th Radar Squadron
3901st Strategic Missile Evaluation Squadron
4300th Support Squadron
6595th Aerospace Test Wing Headquarters
6596th Instrumentation Squadron

The above listed Squadrons are the bulk of the squadrons & soldiers based at Vandenberg AFB in 1963, there were also some small groups such as chaplains, Security police and this one that I found interesting- 7422 AF Petroleum & Chemical Laboratory (as related to some clues in the Z case). The 4392nd squadron seemed to have the most groups.

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : March 30, 2013 10:56 pm
(@snooter)
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I think you are on the right track..i have believed D/E and CJB are the keys to identity of Z for a long time and have not focused on the known victims for years now (no disrespect and god speed to all the families affected by these useless murders)..now i have looked at ferrin over the years and with the gaik (ferrins sister is anything but reliable in my opinion) at the painting party theory i do think that is interesting but more than likely a dead end of sorts (I am not totally against ferrin still playing a key role in all of this though)..military connection..likely…oil field connection ..likely (i think Z use 1 symbol from an I beam steel marking from a steel plant out of Houston???)…Z under 25 at time of D/E…likely…i dunno morf just some thoughts i have

ya know the who cabin deal at the D/E site sure does look like the habitat for Ted K…not saying its him (i have no suspects or POI)..but heck Ted K would be right at home living in that shack

ps: i have kinda leaned to Z enlisting or drafted at 18 and being placed due to IQ test score in an MP training skol…kinda fits in my mind for some reason

 
Posted : October 31, 2013 5:11 am
ace ventura
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With enough years service 8 years I think, a service man or retired one could catch a ride on a military plane at any base and fly to vandenberg for free, permitting they had room and stay at the base for a few dollars for 4 days as I understand it .

 
Posted : October 31, 2013 6:14 am
(@gumshoe)
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As a new contributor I just want to say that, over time, I’ve come to believe that the Zodiac was indeed a member of the U.S. Air Force until sometime just before or after the Cheri Jo Bates murder.

In the case of the Bates murder, the crime scene was close to both March AFB (in Riverside) and Norton AFB in San Bernardino. In fact, a very good service buddy of mine was stationed at March but lived at an apartment complex within a few miles of Norton. So it’s possible that the Zodiac could have been stationed at either base. Norton hosted a Military Airlift Command Wing of jet cargo planes which often flew missions to other bases around the world. This could explain how Miss Bates’ killer could have come into possession of the paint spattered Timex wrist watch found near her body that had been purchased at a base exchange in England.

As an Air Force vet, I know for a fact that any serviceman, regardless of time in service or rank, had the privilege of staying at any base’s transient quarters for a nominal amount per night.

In the case of the Domingos/Edwards homicide, I’ve always been intrigued by the fact that the two teenagers questioned by the Lompoc PD described the suspect known as "Sandy" as being someone from the Bay Area. A possible Zodiac suspect that I’ve been intersted in for some time would have been about the same age as Sandy and was stationed at the former Hamilton AFB in Novato, CA at that time (Novato is just north of the Presidio in San Francisco). It’s entirely possible that this individual could have traveled down the coast, stayed at Vandenberg, and purchased the .22 caliber ammo used in the crime at the Vandenberg BX.

Just speculation on my part, but it sounds like all of you may be thinking along the same lines.

 
Posted : February 17, 2014 4:45 am
Vossler
(@vossler)
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Couldn’t agree with you more, Gumshoe. I’ve wondered the same thing about the Timex from the Bates scene, as well as crime scene’s proximity to AF bases. I’m no veteran (thank you for your service, by the way), but if Z was still in active service at the time, it could possibly explain the lull between the D/E murders and the Bates attack, and the subsequent lull between the Bates murder and the Faraday/Jensen murders.

It’d certainly be difficult to prove, but I think the AFB connection is certainly one of the most plausible Z connections out there. Do you have any more information on this suspect of yours that ties him to any of the other murders?

 
Posted : March 5, 2014 3:14 am
(@gumshoe)
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Sorry for not posting sooner. The last month has been sort of hectic.

I suppose the phrase “person of interest” as opposed to “suspect” is more appropriate.

The individual that I’ve been interested in is a fellow by the name of John Victor Dial. He has been listed as a missing person since 1966.

Dial was born on April 28, 1943 and was raised in Childress, Texas. Childress is located about halfway between and to the east of Amarillo and Lubbock (near the Texas/Oklahoma state line).

According to information posted on the internet by his niece, Dial enlisted in the U.S. Air Force in 1959 at the age of sixteen. Veterans Affairs records obtained by her, stated that Dial was assigned to the 78th Civil Engineering Squadron, which was part of the 78th Fighter-Interceptor Wing based at Hamilton AFB in Novato, California. Novato is 30 miles north of San Francisco, and 23 miles to the west of Vallejo.

Dial was later assigned to Howard AFB in Panama (where he reportedly married a Panamanian woman) and was last seen while on leave in Childress, during late May to early June of 1966, before heading back to Panama.

No earnings on Dial’s Social Security card have been reported since 1968.

My interest in Dial is based on the following points:

1. Age. Dial would have been twenty years old at the time of the Domingos/Edwards homicide, and twenty-five years of age at the time of the Zodiac’s first confirmed attack on Lake Herman Road in late December of 1968. Dial’s age is close to that of the “Sandy” suspect. While the Zodiac is believed to have been between the ages of thirty-five and forty-five, researcher Michael Butterfield makes a good case that the Zodiac could have been in his mid-twenties.

2. Appearance. Dial does bear a resemblance to the composite drawings of both the “Sandy” suspect and the Zodiac killer. Although Dial is not wearing glasses (as did “Sandy” and the Zodiac) in his photos posted on the internet, it is not unreasonable to assume that he may have been prescribed glasses after entering the Air Force.

3. Whereabouts. If the VA information provided by his niece is correct, Dial would have been in the Bay Area between 1959 and 1963. Given this fact, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was familiar with the areas in which the Zodiac crimes were committed, or have traveled to the Lompoc/Vandenberg AFB area as I’ve explained in my earlier post. I believe Dial may have reenlisted in the Air Force in 1963 (just prior to leaving Hamilton AFB for Howard AFB in Panama), and may have gotten out of the service in 1967 after his overseas tour of duty was over. If Dial was the “Sandy” suspect and was in transit to Panama at the time of the Domingos/Edwards homicide, it may explain why the authorities were unable to locate “Sandy” in the Bay Area. It is possible that Dial ended his enlistment at either March AFB in Riverside or Norton AFB in San Bernardino around the same time that Cheri Jo Bates was murdered in late October 1966. Again this crime may have occurred while Dial was in transit. It is not unreasonable to believe that he may have returned to the Bay Area between 1967 and 1968, and worked as a civil service employee for the civil engineering squadron on Hamilton AFB or any of the other military bases around San Francisco.

4. Civil engineering and military experience. While I have never put much stock in the radian theory associated with the Zodiac case, Dial’s service experience and civil engineering training may well have provided him with information on land coordinates such as the Zodiac’s use of Mount Diablo as the starting point for radians that run through the sites of his attacks. Such experience could have also contributed to the ANFO bomb that the Zodiac claimed to have built. I have no doubt that Dial, like other Air Force personnel including myself, would have been issued and worn pairs of wingwalkers (or chuka boots as we called them when I served) that were worn by the Zodiac during the Lake Berryessa attack.

5. Texas background. Dial is from the same area in Texas where the FBI determined that the phrase “fiddle fart” had originated. A variation of the phrase was used by the Zodiac in his letter that criticized the SFPD for not properly searching the park located on the Presidio just after the murder of taxi driver Paul Stine.

6. Disappearance. As I noted earlier, Dial disappeared in 1966 and reported earnings on his Social Security card stopped in 1968. Other researchers interested in Dial have put forth the theory that, sometime in 1978, Dial may have assumed the identity of a six-year old child named Joseph Newton Chandler III who was killed with his parents in an automobile accident that occurred near Sherman, Texas in 1945. Interestingly, Chandler was buried in a cemetery in Weatherford, Texas located just west of Carswell AFB in Fort Worth. In 1978, the last year that a letter from the Zodiac had been received by authorities in San Francisco, a Social Security card was issued to a Joseph Newton Chandler III at an address in Rapid City, South Dakota. The address was only several miles from Elsworth AFB. This Chandler imposter moved to Cleveland, Ohio that same year, later rented an apartment in Eastlake (a Cleveland Suburb), and worked as an engineer for a company named Lubrizol. In 2002 this Chandler imposter committed suicide using a Charter Arms .38 revolver that had been purchased in 1966 at a Western Auto store located in Seagoville, Texas (located southeast of Dallas). A private investigator appointed by an Ohio probate court later uncovered that Chandler was an imposter. The investigator also learned that this imposter had lived in California between 1968 and 1978, was an electrical engineer, and had worked around or was in the U.S. Navy. Also of interest is the fact that Hamilton AFB was officially closed in 1973 and its base housing area was transferred over to the U.S. Navy. Since Air Force civil engineers were responsible for managing and maintaining base housing, Dial, who may have been working at Hamilton as a civil service employee, could very well have found himself working for the Navy after the base closure.

 
Posted : April 24, 2014 3:31 am
morf13
(@morf13)
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Interesting that Dial has been looked at as possibly becoming, JOSEPH CHANDLER. Chandler has been mentioned as a possible zodiac suspect. In reality, Chandler was not really Chandler, he had stolen that ID from a dead kid in TX.

I actually requested Chandler’s(John Doe’s)social security application in an effort to get his handwriting.

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 24, 2014 4:14 am
(@gumshoe)
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Hi Morf.

Did you have any luck obtaining the signature?

 
Posted : April 24, 2014 5:36 am
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

Hi Morf.

Did you have any luck obtaining the signature?

I sent for it tonight, likely will take 3 weeks

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : April 24, 2014 7:15 am
(@nachtsider)
Posts: 367
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This Dial fella sounds like a pretty solid suspect, gumshoe. His background and skill set match up pretty well with what Zodiac appeared to display, especially the Air Force service (I’ve always fingered Zodiac to have been Air Force groundcrew of some description).

Funnily enough, the crossed-circle symbol that Zodiac used to sign his letters corresponds to the letter ‘D’ in Zodiac’s first cipher alphabet. D for ‘Dial’?

 
Posted : April 25, 2014 12:46 am
(@gumshoe)
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Update: According to a December 18, 2013 post on the website whereaboutsstillunkown ( http://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpres … john-dial/), John Victor Dial has been found safe and has spoken to his sister for the first time in fifty years. No other details were given about his current location. No similar information about Dial being found has been posted on other websites that have him listed as a missing person.

If this is true, it would rule out the possibility that Dial and the Ohio John Doe were the same person.

 
Posted : September 27, 2014 9:43 pm
(@nick-no-nora)
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This is an online history of Space Technology Laboratories. This is the company where 1964 Manhattan Beach murder victim Joyce Walker worked. It was a defense contracting firm that worked on missiles and satellites (and maybe some computers).

https://tra-spacepark.org/wordpress/wp- … story2.pdf

One org chart indicates the company had a field office at Vandenberg. This is presumably the AFB since the government was launching satellites there.

This of course assumes the document is accurate.

 
Posted : January 20, 2021 8:19 am
(@nick-no-nora)
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It looks like there was a missile test there that day, at about noon.

http://www.astronautix.com/a/atlas.html

1963 June 4 – . 20:12 GMT – . Launch Site: Vandenberg. Launch Complex: Vandenberg OSTF1. LV Family: Atlas. Launch Vehicle: Atlas E.
Research and development launch – . Nation: USA. Agency: USAF AFSC. Apogee: 1,600 km (900 mi).

 
Posted : January 20, 2021 9:22 am
(@nick-no-nora)
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So Vandenberg is where the Air Force tested its missile systems.

Naval Ordinance Laboratory, Corona – where Joseph Bates worked – was where the Navy tested its missile systems. At least at one time.

https://www.pe.com/2014/05/21/norco-wea … -key-role/

The first incarnation of the largely civilian base — just 28 of its 2,100 employees are active duty military personnel — was established in 1953 largely out of frustration with unreliable weaponry at the time. The Naval Ordinance Laboratory’s job at the time was to objectively evaluate missile systems.

Is this correct?

EDIT:
This is helpful.

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Warfar … d-History/

In the 1964, the missile testing came under a new, different command but still at the Corona location. I don’t understand it enough to know how much of a difference, if any that made.

The article gives at least a good sense of what was going on when as far as missile testing at the Corona base.

SECOND EDIT:
It sounds like the in-house development of the missiles was at NOLC and so was the testing until 1964. And it was causing conflicts of interest, which is why they split up the functions. Makes sense. It likely didn’t change that much.

 
Posted : January 20, 2021 9:51 am
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