First off, the major stuff-

Allan did not know Ross to be dangerous, nor did he ever see him do anything violent. He did not know Ross to hurt people, animals, etc. He did not know Ross to shoot guns, or hunt.

Allan did not know Ross to use ciphers, puzzles, codes, etc.

Allan said that Ross was very interested in Acting, and in movies, bit he did not know Ross to be locked in to any certain movies or shows(Dangerous Game, Gilbert & Sullivan)

Allan said Ross was close to 300 pounds back in high school but to quote him," Ross didn’t have rolls, he was big, but beefy or solid" (sounds almost as how Mageau or Hartnell described Z).

Allan said that Ross talked slow, and deliberate, he drew out his words. When I described how Zodiac spoke, Allan said that that sounded close to how Ross spoke.

Allan said that Ross was self conscious about his size, and had trouble with girls.

Allan said that Ross wrote and read poetry a lot.

Allan said that he kept up with Ross until about 1963 or so, and last he knew, he was aware Ross worked in a library at RCC. In 1963 or so, Allan got drafted, and lost touch with Ross, and did not know Ross was dead until I told him today. He said he would like to help with looking at Ross to clear him, but if he is Z, he also would want the truth to be known.

Allan is going to look for the old movie starring Ross, and see if he can get me a copy. It’s on a reel, and may not have sound. Allan doesn’t have any samples of Ross’s writing,or other photos of Ross.

I will follow up with him in a few Days, and report addl findings!

That is great Morf. I’m glad you found another person that was willing to help, even if it is to try and prove he’s not Z. I also think it’s important to note that the onset of mental illness (especially schizophrenia) tends to around 18 and into the early 20s for males (25 for females). It could be that Ross developed those tendancies after high school, so it would make sense that people that knew him earlier on would not see that side. The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

That is great Morf. I’m glad you found another person that was willing to help, even if it is to try and prove he’s not Z. I also think it’s important to note that the onset of mental illness (especially schizophrenia) tends to around 18 and into the early 20s for males (25 for females). It could be that Ross developed those tendancies after high school, so it would make sense that people that knew him earlier on would not see that side. The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

There are at least a couple profilers who felt Zodiac was a paranoid schizophrenic, just like Ross was

I hoped Allan would have additional pics of Ross, and hopefully more writing, but likely has neither. He says that he has the video in storage and is willing to let us use it, but does not recall if it has sound, but thinks the quality of the footage is very good. I had hoped to hear Ross speak.

The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement Susie. There are many reasons one could be admitted to a mental hospital–not being a threat to themselves or others. Especially back in the 60’s; people were admitted for showing signs of depression. I personally know of someone who was admitted, not due to the fact they would harm themselves, just that family didn’t know how to help.

That said, schizophrenia would certainly (and did) constitute one to possibly need a mental hospital, but Ross’s brother Jon stated he did not know of Ross being "violent" in any way. That is not to say Ross never was–just that Jon was not aware, so it would seem violence was not part of the reason Ross was institutionalized–if Jon is being truthful.

(Paul Stine was put into a mental hospital by his brother and sister–that has to have lasting resentment..forgiveness sure, but resentment, yes)

I had hoped to hear Ross speak.

That would be an added bonus!

The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement Susie. There are many reasons one could be admitted to a mental hospital–not being a threat to themselves or others. Especially back in the 60’s; people were admitted for showing signs of depression. I personally know of someone who was admitted, not due to the fact they would harm themselves, just that family didn’t know how to help.

That said, schizophrenia would certainly (and did) constitute one to possibly need a mental hospital, but Ross’s brother Jon stated he did not know of Ross being "violent" in any way. That is not to say Ross never was–just that Jon was not aware, so it would seem violence was not part of the reason Ross was institutionalized–if Jon is being truthful.

(Paul Stine was put into a mental hospital by his brother and sister–that has to have lasting resentment..forgiveness sure, but resentment, yes)

Any chance Ross and Stein were in the same hospital at the same time? Always that rumor of Z possibly knowing Stein….would be an interesting connection that likely no police officer would have known or been able to find out at the time.

The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement Susie. There are many reasons one could be admitted to a mental hospital–not being a threat to themselves or others. Especially back in the 60’s; people were admitted for showing signs of depression. I personally know of someone who was admitted, not due to the fact they would harm themselves, just that family didn’t know how to help.

That said, schizophrenia would certainly (and did) constitute one to possibly need a mental hospital, but Ross’s brother Jon stated he did not know of Ross being "violent" in any way. That is not to say Ross never was–just that Jon was not aware, so it would seem violence was not part of the reason Ross was institutionalized–if Jon is being truthful.

(Paul Stine was put into a mental hospital by his brother and sister–that has to have lasting resentment..forgiveness sure, but resentment, yes)

That may be true back in the 60s, but I work with a lot of people with mental health and there were times that we would have liked to have them admitted due to them needing intense treatment; however they were not deemed to be threat to themselves or others and therefore we could not. Usually if someone has depression they are admitted because there is a fear they may committee suicide (threat to self) or cause self injurious behaviors (cut self or purposely injure even if not to the point of being life threatening). A minor or person that is conserved can be admitted against there will on what is considered a voluntary basis if the conservator feels it is warenteed; however they still need to provide reasonable allegations regarding why they feel that way. I have never known anyone to be admitted for depression unless it was felt the person may hurt themselves, keep in mind that complete lack of self care (although usually to the extreme) does fall under threat to themselves.

Very interesting thought actually. The murder does not fit in with the others, so it could be something more personal behind it. Quess the rumor that Stein might have known zodiac comes from the fact that he rode in the front seat with him, something stein never would let someone he diddnt know do.

Very interesting thought actually. The murder does not fit in with the others, so it could be something more personal behind it. Quess the rumor that Stein might have known zodiac comes from the fact that he rode in the front seat with him, something stein never would let someone he diddnt know do.

I do agree that it is an interesting theory that Stine may have known Z; however I can’t imagine that Z would have been able to flag down a driver he knew at that exact time and location unless it was planned in advance, which would have been very risky. I have been in San Fran and got a cab in the location they believe Z was picked up and there was no way that I could have known which cab was going to stop. Cell phones obviously were not around, so Z couldn’t have called him and asked him to meet him there, so the only way would be if Z planned to meet him or if he flagged down a cab and recognized Paul.

I don’t know if Ross was in SF with certainty during 1969. There is heresay he was, but I need proof, not heresay. Therefore, I have no way to know if he could have knew Paul Stine. I think Ross was in mental institutions not of his own free will, as for example, when he trapped the Guy in the phone booth.

To my knowledge it has never been proved that Z rode in the front with Stine. There are several theories which fit the alternative too, i.e. that he rode in the back.

And even if he did ride in the front, it’s just an assumption that Stine had to know him for this to take place.

His sister stated at some point that she didn’t think he’d let a stranger ride up front, but that’s hardly conclusive. We don’t know the circumstances, perhaps Z insisted on riding up front and Stine just humored him – it was a short ride after all.

Pure guesswork either way, in my opinion.

I doubt Z knew any of his victims, but anything’s possible, of course.

The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn’t make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement Susie. There are many reasons one could be admitted to a mental hospital–not being a threat to themselves or others. Especially back in the 60’s; people were admitted for showing signs of depression. I personally know of someone who was admitted, not due to the fact they would harm themselves, just that family didn’t know how to help.

That said, schizophrenia would certainly (and did) constitute one to possibly need a mental hospital, but Ross’s brother Jon stated he did not know of Ross being "violent" in any way. That is not to say Ross never was–just that Jon was not aware, so it would seem violence was not part of the reason Ross was institutionalized–if Jon is being truthful.

(Paul Stine was put into a mental hospital by his brother and sister–that has to have lasting resentment..forgiveness sure, but resentment, yes)

That may be true back in the 60s, but I work with a lot of people with mental health and there were times that we would have liked to have them admitted due to them needing intense treatment; however they were not deemed to be threat to themselves or others and therefore we could not. Usually if someone has depression they are admitted because there is a fear they may committee suicide (threat to self) or cause self injurious behaviors (cut self or purposely injure even if not to the point of being life threatening). A minor or person that is conserved can be admitted against there will on what is considered a voluntary basis if the conservator feels it is warenteed; however they still need to provide reasonable allegations regarding why they feel that way. I have never known anyone to be admitted for depression unless it was felt the person may hurt themselves, keep in mind that complete lack of self care (although usually to the extreme) does fall under threat to themselves.

Hi Susie–

I value your expertise. You are certainly more knowledgeable than I when it comes to this subject. I’m just speaking from a personal experience. As you know, some (in past experiments) were admitted with no problems at all and labeled schizophrenic. I’m just saying that while the institution may need to believe there is some sort of threat to admit someone, that "someone" may not actually be in need of being institutionalized. imo.

You should ask Allan about Ross’ parents and if it’s true they all lived together at Sterling’s house after Ross’ mother died. I’m still dying to know how she died and what happened to the father.