The letter writer also mentioned a phone call, and in the FBI files Morf uncovered we finally got confirmation there was a phone call.

I remember searching for that a while back, with no success: A link would be greatly appreciated. If that can be established 100% it would be very compelling. The middle wire/coil wire detail is still in the "inconclusive" bracket for me, since it was published: The letter writer could have made the necessary inference even if the article was less specific.

I found it and bumped it in the Bates thread. The FBI says RPD told them the letter writer was correct about the middle wire, the injuries and most importantly the phone call to RPD happening. So IMO that seals it that the writer and the Bates killer were very likely to almost certainly one and the same.

I found it and bumped it in the Bates thread. The FBI says RPD told them the letter writer was correct about the phone call to RPD happening. So IMO that seals it that the writer and the Bates killer were one and the same.

Thanks, AK – much appreciated!

I will have a closer look.

I can’t find the article, but I think RPD figured out the confession was typed up at the RCC Library. This would mean both the desktop and the confession could be linked to the library.

This heavily favors a local suspect who was confident returning to the library, using the RCC library to type up his confession, and not draw attention or be seen doing all this.

download/file.php?id=3475

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=71&start=40

I can’t find the article, but I think RPD figured out the confession was typed up at the RCC Library. This would mean both the desktop and the confession could be linked to the library.

This heavily favors a local suspect who was confident returning to the library, using the RCC library to type up his confession, and not draw attention or be seen doing all this.

download/file.php?id=3475

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=71&start=40

I can’t find the article, but I think RPD figured out the confession was typed up at the RCC Library. This would mean both the desktop and the confession could be linked to the library.

This heavily favors a local suspect who was confident returning to the library, using the RCC library to type up his confession, and not draw attention or be seen doing all this.

download/file.php?id=3475

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=71&start=40

I agree with this…problem is it may not necissarily point to a student of rcc or rcc faculty or other employees…even 30 years ago my college library was open to anybody who wanted to research any particular topic….we had 100k population which means a near zero possibilty of us arm chair sleuths pin pointing a strong suspect….leo’s would had to have conducted dozens upon dozens of interviews and with an open case we would not have been granted access to there findings (like what we face with cjb)…….point well taken though..a local perp most logical to suspect… but the riverside area was a major player in auto sports which brought in thousands of people….i still like an ex student of rcc who graduated or transferred out of rcc and went to berkley…

I don’t think they ever knew definitively that it was a typewriter from the library, just that it was a royal which the library also had. I am imagining a popular product.. but if this royal was attributed to the library this would eliminate Ross or Bartlett as one of them performed a gypsy smoke bomb straight after the murder. cant remember which one? sorry a bit off topic.

Occam’s Razor comes down to the laws of probability.

We will forever argue and disagree in circles about the Zodiac case, but the laws of probability tell us:

-The Riverside writings COULD be all a big coincidence and not relate to the later Z crimes, but they PROBABLY do.
-Bates COULD have been attacked by a total stranger, but he was PROBABLY someone she knew.
-The confession writer COULD have taken credit for her murder and lucked out that it was never solved for 50 years, but he was PROBABLY the killer.
-RPD COULD have tied up all loose ends and done a thorough investigation of all suspects, but they PROBABLY didn’t.

And most aspects of the Zodiac case end up with this same argument.

-Z COULD look totally different from the sketch, but he PROBABLY looks just like it.
-Z COULD have fooled everyone and been a criminal mastermind, but he PROBABLY just got lucky.

We can argue about all the points of this case until the end of time. Probability, on the other hand would say,

Zodiac COULD have been just about anyone, but he was PROBABLY Ross.

Occam’s Razor comes down to the laws of probability.

We will forever argue and disagree in circles about the Zodiac case, but the laws of probability tell us:

-The Riverside writings COULD be all a big coincidence and not relate to the later Z crimes, but they PROBABLY do.
-Bates COULD have been attacked by a total stranger, but he was PROBABLY someone she knew.
-The confession writer COULD have taken credit for her murder and lucked out that it was never solved for 50 years, but he was PROBABLY the killer.
-RPD COULD have tied up all loose ends and done a thorough investigation of all suspects, but they PROBABLY didn’t.

And most aspects of the Zodiac case end up with this same argument.

-Z COULD look totally different from the sketch, but he PROBABLY looks just like it.
-Z COULD have fooled everyone and been a criminal mastermind, but he PROBABLY just got lucky.

We can argue about all the points of this case until the end of time. Probability, on the other hand would say,

Zodiac COULD have been just about anyone, but he was PROBABLY Ross.

Well for my money, Z at least looked identical to Ross according to the sketch from the Stine scene(since it looks identical to Ross),and as per Sherwood Morrill, Z did some writing on a desk in RCC library. If anybody knows of any other Z sketch look- alikes from that Library, let me know,I will check them out as a Suspect. But so far, we only have Ross.

If you frame the question as "Who has a known connection to the Riverside CC Library and looks a lot like the sketch", than the answer is Ross.

But anybody, especially a man age 18-25, could walk into the RCC Library, not seem out of place and write a poem on a desk. And if as reported the poem was on the underside of a desk, that points not to a day dreaming student or local boy but an outsider who grabbed a desk top from a stack and wrote the poem to make it seem like the killer was local.

Just like the confession writer said the Bates murder was payback for all of her "brush offs" over the years. Again, a local suspect who knew Bates and stupidly informs police of this fact? Maybe. Or could it be an outsider trying to make police think the killer knew the victim?

If you frame the question as "Who do we know who was actually in the SF area during the murders, looks like the sketch and wrote to newspapers demanding his words appear on the front page or innocents would die, wrote about targeting couples, designed bombs and codes, left crossed lines inside a circle at a crime scene and really killed strangers?", then the answer is Ted K.

If you frame the question as "Who was in the Presidio area the night of the Stine murder?", then the answer may be Mr. X.

See the problem? Then you have the issue we discussed on the other thread. RPD believed at the time, and the known evidence supports it, that the Riverside writer was very likely to almost certainly the Bates killer. If on the basis of alibi, fingerprints and hair color Ross is eliminated as the Bates killer then he is also very unlikely to have been the Riverside writer. And if strong evidence shows the Riverside writer was the Zodiac, then it is not the case that Ross "probably" was Zodiac but that he probably was not.

I’m not saying Ross is a bad suspect. Morf and others here have done a great job uncovering info on him and have posted the good points and bad points in an attempt to get to the truth. When he was a good suspect, probably the best suspect ever for the Bates murder, he was also a good suspect to be the Riverside writer and the Zodiac Killer.

But I don’t find the Occam Razor logic or the "probably" conclusion to be very convincing. And IMO being eliminated as the Bates killer effectively eliminates him as the Riverside writer, and that seriously hurts him as a suspect for Zodiac. But other than addressing any objections or questions I’ll leave the thread to those who are most interested.

I agree with your probabilities Paul, other than two points.

1. Zodiac probably looked just like the sketch. Plenty of people looked like the sketch, we know that sketches are not accurate because they are not meant to be. For years I said that, composite sketches are not designed to match a suspect, they are designed to bring in other eyewitness so that they can ID a suspect. They aren’t intended for people who aren’t witnesses to use like a photo lineup.

2. Riverside probably didn’t investigate enough. What makes you say that? Didn’t they report CJB as their only unsolved murder? I’m pretty sure that isn’t true, but I don’t see how they have established a notable pattern of failing to investigate suspects to warrant such a claim.

All my skepticism aside, I do think Ross is probably the best Zodiac suspect we currently have based on his timeline and locations. So why did it take 45 years for anyone to make a big deal about this? Why didn’t Graysmith, and others who are so knowledgeable about the case know about this, or rather why didn’t they see it that way? That really bugs me.

All my skepticism aside, I do think Ross is probably the best Zodiac suspect we currently have based on his timeline and locations. So why did it take 45 years for anyone to make a big deal about this? Why didn’t Graysmith, and others who are so knowledgeable about the case know about this, or rather why didn’t they see it that way? That really bugs me.

Graysmith was locked into ALA, and before that Marshall. Ross slipped thru the cracks. Dave Peterson was asking about Ross in 1977 or earlier, and asking Toschi to poke around into Ross and to have his prints checked against Zodiac’s. We don’t know if that was ever done. Ross’s Brother thought Ross was Z, but we don’t know if he ever went to police,etc, just a string of bad luck.

I agree with your probabilities Paul, other than two points.

1. Zodiac probably looked just like the sketch. Plenty of people looked like the sketch, we know that sketches are not accurate because they are not meant to be. For years I said that, composite sketches are not designed to match a suspect, they are designed to bring in other eyewitness so that they can ID a suspect. They aren’t intended for people who aren’t witnesses to use like a photo lineup.

2. Riverside probably didn’t investigate enough. What makes you say that? Didn’t they report CJB as their only unsolved murder? I’m pretty sure that isn’t true, but I don’t see how they have established a notable pattern of failing to investigate suspects to warrant such a claim.

#1 can be answered by #2. (Riverside probably didn’t investigate enough.)
That’s not exactly what I’m saying. That fact of the matter is this: the CJB murder has gone unsolved for 50 years.. This doesn’t mean they didn’t try or were incompetent. It simply means they missed something. This now leaves the door wide open for all the "see, they missed Earl Van Best!" But those claims don’t work because of what relates to your first question.

(#1) The initial investigation into the CJB murder was pre-Zodiac. So any of the Zodiac evidence had not evolved yet. Ross’s appearance, whereabouts after the murder, and later mental health issues held no significance in 1966. RPD was investigating everyone. In 1968 (still pre Z) they began down the Barnett path.

When we stared looking into Ross, it was only a rumor that his brother might have gone to CJB church. So it is unlikely even the RPD figured out what we know now about the Ross and CJB connection.

But I agree, we don’t have a good connection for Ross and the Bay Area crimes. We have his timeline, and it has a big hole. Just so happens that hole happens when the Zodiac crime spree starts.

Do you all know the watchmaker’s analogy? It’s another philosophical principle. It’s actually an argument for intelligent design of the universe, but you can see its application in other ways. Come to think of it, it’s a little like Occam’s Razor. Basically, the idea is that you find a watch on a beach. How do you assume it came to be in this form in this place? Do you think, well, this object must have come to be here by nature, the tides interacting with the sand for centuries, etc. until it made this object on the beach? Or do you think it was made by somebody and dropped there?

Sure it could be that some innocent person wrote the desk poem. And that it appears to have happened during the semester that a murder took place outside that same building. And that the handwriting would match letters sent to the police claiming responsibility for the murder. And that years later the handwriting would tie in to a series of murders in the Bay Area, in which the killer also wrote to claim responsibility. But that would have to be one extremely unlucky poet.

. But that would have to be one extremely unlucky poet.

Just the opposite, very LUCKY