Also the e’s. Ross on the top, desktop on the bottom.

Wow those middle Es look like a match, I wish the same pen was used for both writing would be easier to compare as opposed to two different writing untensils

Sorry to keep being a nay-sayer but I see consistent differences. Namely in the turn on the left hand side of the e. Whilst Ross’s are more elliptical and his turns are based more in the middle to upper half region of the e, Zodiac’s have a sharper turn more often that not and are based in the lower half of the character, This is almost certainly an ingrained habit as it’s also present in his c’s.

Whilst you could argue that similarities can be found in certain points on the characters this isn’t an indication of common authorship. These are ‘normal’ variations that anyone would have and when looking at two exemplars, if there is a style similarity to begin with these ‘cross-over’ points are going to exist. When you take a step back though and look at the things that can be termed ‘habits’ and compare those then, even with a small example such as this, you can see that there is a difference in habit.

I know we aren’t dealing with the clearest examples here but I hope the diagram below will assist in explaining my technical ramblings.

There are many things to consider, both for and against. Assuming Ross filled out the SS application, there was a 10+ year gap. Zodiac also, may have altered his writing.

But one thing is for sure, both Z and Ross seems to construct many letters and numbers in the same manner.

There are some real similarities in the writing samples.

Wish we had more handwriting samples available. He liked to write, so it’s possible that a living relative has journals that belonged to Ross. Not that we could ever get ahold of them.

But one thing is for sure, both Z and Ross seems to construct many letters and numbers in the same manner.

There are some real similarities in the writing samples.

You are correct.

This is what I mean though about having to look at these things in stages. There are some very real similarities but again that will and does happen with lots of examples. I know it seems like it’s looking for problems rather than answers but it’s not. It’s more about being able to come to decisions and the least pain free way of reaching them.

All the thoughts about changing habits, varying styles, passing time etc etc. I’ve had them all too and I guess I’m just trying to save anyone else go through them to no conclusion. You could spend all day finding compelling similarities in writing and you will (trust me I have) but it doesn’t lead to anything other than the encouragement to keep going cause this could be Z. The problem is that sneaky old Z introduced letters that pretty much set that up. No matter how clinical I try to be about these things I still, rather inefficiently, have to check every bloody thing Z wrote to see if there’s an unnoticed trait or style when looking at POI’s exemplars.

Here’s one for Ross – not sure if it’s been posted yet – to illustrate the point.

I would have, at one point, thought – no way! It is compelling to first see it but once you get over the "similarity shock" even this, what you would think is unique, has it’s differences and they are consistent in and to each.

Similar – pointed loop on both l/c a’s and long horizontal tails. Elongated n’s with similar construction.

Different – X heights of preceding characters compared to the n. X heights of the n’s compared to each other. The tails on both a’s and n’s are different in their inflections but consistent with each other within each example i.e Both Ross’s a and n tails inflect upwards at angles consistent to each other. Zodiac’s go down and with an angle and curve consistent to themselves.

I could list more but basically what look’s like a "no f’ing way" moment becomes a "more questions than answers", as the song goes, moment on detailed inspection.

P.S. Notice that little ‘kink’ in the turn of the curve on Z’s lower case c. Same as his l/c e’s.

I wish we had more clear samples of Ross’s writing to work with, and again, if Ross & Z were both using the same ink,marker, etc,, may be easier to see more similarity or differences.

Example-If you were to write, ‘THE CAT IN THE HAT CHASED AFTER THE RAT’ in both pen and marker/felt tip, there would appear to be differences.

Trav brought this up already, but I’m amazed at how close it is. (Remember, 12 year difference)

Trav brought this up already, but I’m amazed at how close it is. (Remember, 12 year difference)

I had forgotten that, very close isn’t it?. Just one more reason to like Ross

That’s why we need as many samples of a poi’s writing as possible. It is close, it’s very close but it’s also different. Both the tail on the a and the n go up at the end. On Zodiac’s they go down. I know it seems like nit picking but that’s where other samples come into play. To help you see if there’s a pattern in the broader picture.

Also you have to consider that this is Ross’s ‘natural’ writing and the RP letter is stylized and not Z’s natural writing so that ‘n’ is a construct and not a normal writing pattern. I think it’s safer to stick to the letters that share the most patterns when it comes to Z’s stuff and comparing it to a poi’s writing. Less ambiguity as to what you are actually comparing.

sure it "looks like it" which may be enough… but I did notice that Z’s "n" seems to continue on after the first upstroke, possibly even to a second stroke, before beginning the downstroke. On Ross’ it appears that it abruptly shifts straight to the downstroke. Also as noted, the tail is different.

So would you call that around 80% match on that letter?

I agree some differences, but also written years apart, one on an official govt paper, and one on a letter that is a piece of criminal evidence, so could explain a slight difference in that n. By the way, the SS application from Ross is of really poor quality. We need more samples from Ross, which I doubt we will get

So frustrating, that we cannot obtain more samples. I’ve been pondering how I might track something down — cancelled checks that would be kept on file at a bank (unlikely), tax returns, leases, that sort of thing… but with Ross being institutionalized, he likely did not handle any administrative duties for himself in those later years.

If he worked in the library, and attended high school and RCC at some point, you would think there would be something. But without great record keeping in those days, and with so much time that has gone by, it seems like a long shot.

If Joann Bailey, the RCC Librarian was alive, she might be able to help. The best source now would be Ross’s Family, and they are not willing to help.

To the Family of Ross Sullivan, if you’re reading this as I think you may be, help clear Ross’s name, and provide us with writing samples, or additionally, contact me privately via the contact page on the main page of this site. I would love to help clear Ross, so please, help us do that

I admire the ability of all who are able to get these social security applications but imo it is pointless and I don’t mean any criticism by this opinion.

At first, I thought it was a great idea but after seeing so many examples have changed my mind. Most of these were done years before the crimes and the person’s writing in many cases has changed dramatically. Mine is a good example. I applied for my card when I was about 15 yrs. old in order to get a work permit IIRC. When I compare that signature to the one when I was only 6 yrs. older (21) it looks much different.

One reason to account for this is the difference in pens used and the amount of space available on the form.

Signatures on voter’s registration forms or Selective Service would be more representative of an individual’s true handwriting imo as they would have been older in most cases when these were signed.

Looking thru Ross’s SS application, not much to work with I know, but one thing that jumps out at me, Ross shares Zodiac’s odd spacing habits in his writing