Pro

Reportedly rode a motorcycle w/ loud exhaust.

con: nothing links him to any of the non-bates murders. you’re making a better case for z not being the killer of bates (with ross as her killer) than for making ross = zodiac.

the logic seems to be; ross looks like a candidate for bates’ murder > zodiac looks like a candidate for the bates letters > ross must be zodiac.

As far as POIs go, I think he’s one of the best candidates for being Z. That said, there’s a few things that work against him. I have trouble, for one thing, believing Z was schizophrenic. I know for some on here Z fits into the profile of a crazy killer, but those letters, though seemingly delusional at times, are not the rantings of a schizophrenic.

The other problem I have is that Ross only matches the composite ofStine’s killer in some ways, while being totally off the mark in others, for instance, his weight and height. Remember, Stine’s killer only had a slight paunch.

Still, I must say I am very intrigued by his connection to Bates, Riverside College, and in particular, the library where the desk top poem was found. Also, the widow’s peak is a big pro for me. That’s a somewhat rare and distinguishing feature.

con: nothing links him to any of the non-bates murders. you’re making a better case for z not being the killer of bates (with ross as her killer) than for making ross = zodiac.

the logic seems to be; ross looks like a candidate for bates’ murder > zodiac looks like a candidate for the bates letters > ross must be zodiac.

Thanks for the reply. I don’t know whether Bates was killed by Zodiac, and although I would love to see her case solved, I am working primarily on the Zodiac murders. Therefore, her case is a back story to the zodiac murders. Sherwood Morrill linked Zodiac to the letters & writing in the Bates case, and NOT to the Bates murder. That’s the lead I am following

Pro

Reportedly rode a motorcycle w/ loud exhaust.

Bailey said Ross owned a Motorcycle, she has been solid with her other points, as was Mr Katz.

As far as POIs go, I think he’s one of the best candidates for being Z. That said, there’s a few things that work against him. I have trouble, for one thing, believing Z was schizophrenic. I know for some on here Z fits into the profile of a crazy killer, but those letters, though seemingly delusional at times, are not the rantings of a schizophrenic.

The other problem I have is that Ross only matches the composite ofStine’s killer in some ways, while being totally off the mark in others, for instance, his weight and height. Remember, Stine’s killer only had a slight paunch.

Still, I must say I am very intrigued by his connection to Bates, Riverside College, and in particular, the library where the desk top poem was found. Also, the widow’s peak is a big pro for me. That’s a somewhat rare and distinguishing feature.

Ross’s Friend Allan stated that Ross was big, solid, fat, but not "rolly polly’ or having ‘rolls’ of fat. Nobody has seen what Ross looked like in 1969, so we can’t say how fat he did or did not look. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think Ross looks like he’s approaching 300 pounds in the pics we have of him, but he was!

The Guy pictured here, to me doesn’t look to be near 300 pounds, he looks solid and stocky, but not really fat, anybody disagree?

Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

Making a Pros vs cons list for Ross as possibly being Zodiac. Feel free to add to the list.

Pros:

*He was in the RCC Library in which the State’s foremost writing expert linked the desktop poem there to Zodiac

*The desktop writing linked to Z was a morbid poem, and Ross had only a short time before the murder, freaked out the RCC Library Staff

*The Library staff suspected him of Killing possible Z victim, Cheri Jo Bates

*Ross knew Cheri, and vice versa, and Ross’s Brother Tim married Cheri’s good Friend, Bonnie

*Ross is a dead ringer for the SFPD sketch of Z

*Ross’s own Brother, Tim, thought he was Zodiac

*Some writing matches and habits seem to be a match for Zodiac

*He had a "widows peak," information not known before 2007.

*He died in 1977, 3 years after the final Z letters. But before the fake 1978 letter and media attention when the real Z stayed silent.

*He moved back to Santa Cruz in 1974, the same point that the final letters were mailed.

*He matches, perfectly, FBI profiler Dr. Miron’s report:
http://www.officialcoldcaseinvestigatio … ay-S-Miron

*He WAS in the bay area around the time of the Z crimes. (Santa Cruz still counts, I’m sure we will verify a better connection)

Morf:

Just a minor point, but I feel it’s worth mentioning nonetheless:

The desktop poem, regarded as a poem, is not particularly morbid. It’s not only possible, but in my opinion (which jibes with that of literary experts all over the place) most plausible, to regard the poem as a "suicide fantasy". Which is certainly more morbid, in a general sense, than a poem about flowers or kittens – but it is not sick or twisted, or indicative of murderous tendencies.

Just saying, you know – in the interest of balancing the books, so to speak.

I know for some on here Z fits into the profile of a crazy killer, but those letters, though seemingly delusional at times, are not the rantings of a schizophrenic.

Clearly not. And that is a very important point. But we do not know precisely what state Ross was in at the crucial time – which makes it impossible to rule him out based on this.

I’m almost tempted to say the opposite: That Ross’ general status, as someone who obviously wasn’t perfectly sound, makes him a plausible candidate – as such. I can easily buy the idea of Z as being someone with Ross’ background, his general traits, everything we now know about him…all this seems good to me.

The problem is, of course, that if we can determine that Ross’ mental issues were of a specific kind in the precise period we’re dealing with here – then, yes, he’s out. Because whoever Z was, he wasn’t completely out of it, to put it in layman’s terms. But we don’t know enough about Ross’ medical details – that’s partly the difficulty here.

Nor do we know for sure precisely what his bodily features were like in the relevant time frame. Was he an obviously, extremely HUGE guy? If so, that doesn’t jibe. Was he a big guy, but not extremely so? Well, that does jibe. MM described Z as being "real beefy" but not flabby – what morf posted above is actually in line with this.

Not enough details – that is the problem. But if we’re working from the principle – which is a sound one – that our business here is to exclude Ross, then I personally don’t think this has been done yet. That’s based both on logic and gut feeling, for whatever it’s worth.

But I would like to mention, again, that with Ross we’re not only dealing with the Z case – but also with the possibly unrelated Bates case.

My concern is his size. We have a guy who knew him in high school in the early 60’s say he was about 300 lbs. We have him at 6’2"…I think.

When he died in 1977, "Extreme Obesity" is mentioned on his death certificate. While a lot can happened in 10+ years, it would seem Ross was getting larger.

I don’t see how, if Ross was Zodiac, he was not described as a very large man….stocky, beefy, blubbery or not. Take the guesses of height and weight out of the picture and to me, he would have still been described as a very large man.

Some will say his size is a "pro"…I believe it is a "con".

Paul linked to this-

"Dr. Miron, a psycholinguistics expert wrote this report for the Syracuse Research Institute:
"He is no more than high school educated, reads little, is isolated, withdrawn and unrelated in his habits, quiet and unpreposessing in disposition, a discretionary illiterate. Prefers the passiveness of pictures, tv and the movies. Would have spent much of his time in movie houses, specializing in sado-masochistic and occult eroticism. A borderline psychotic, his communications display the characteristic signs of magical thinking and narcissistic infantilism, typical of the schitzophrenic. Zodiac rather well fits the pattern of what might be called pseudo-reactive schitzophrenia. Such individuals engage in their bizarre behavior as a sort of cover up for their underlying, and more hidden psychosis. They can be expected to display wide swings of emotion from intense euphoria to deepest depression. He lives the secret life of seclusion and presents to the worls a mask of containment, pleasantness, and ordinariness."
Dr. Murray S. Miron"

That’s an old profile, I think was in the Graysmith Book, and yes, a lot of it fits Ross.

Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

Making a Pros vs cons list for Ross as possibly being Zodiac. Feel free to add to the list.

Pros:

*He was in the RCC Library in which the State’s foremost writing expert linked the desktop poem there to Zodiac

*The desktop writing linked to Z was a morbid poem, and Ross had only a short time before the murder, freaked out the RCC Library Staff

*The Library staff suspected him of Killing possible Z victim, Cheri Jo Bates

*Ross knew Cheri, and vice versa, and Ross’s Brother Tim married Cheri’s good Friend, Bonnie

*Ross is a dead ringer for the SFPD sketch of Z

*Ross’s own Brother, Tim, thought he was Zodiac

*Some writing matches and habits seem to be a match for Zodiac

*He moved back to Santa Cruz in 1974, the same point that the final letters were mailed.

*He WAS in the bay area around the time of the Z crimes. (Santa Cruz still counts, I’m sure we will verify a better connection)

I personally can’t see mailing letters in SF on weekdays, and killing in Vallejo on weekends, driving all the way from Santa Cruz, it’s really a lot of driving. While it’s possible somebody could drive that far, I personally think Z lived or worked in the immediate area of the SF Bay area. What is it, like 50 miles from Santa Cruz to Vallejo or San fran? We need to link Ross closer to the Z crimes in my opinion.

Also, I think there are some clues surrounding the timing of Ross’s Mental health affairs in Santa Cruz. I wish we could learn more about it.

The desktop poem, regarded as a poem, is not particularly morbid. It’s not only possible, but in my opinion (which jibes with that of literary experts all over the place) most plausible, to regard the poem as a "suicide fantasy". Which is certainly more morbid, in a general sense, than a poem about flowers or kittens – but it is not sick or twisted, or indicative of murderous tendencies.

Source please

My concern is his size. We have a guy who knew him in high school in the early 60’s say he was about 300 lbs. We have him at 6’2"…I think.

When he died in 1977, "Extreme Obesity" is mentioned on his death certificate. While a lot can happened in 10+ years, it would seem Ross was getting larger.

I don’t see how, if Ross was Zodiac, he was not described as a very large man….stocky, beefy, blubbery or not. Take the guesses of height and weight out of the picture and to me, he would have still been described as a very large man.

Some will say his size is a "pro"…I believe it is a "con".

The best Judge of Zodiac’s height to me would be Fouke, he was looking at Z from ground level. Then again, he was sitting in a patrol car, so I don’t know. The Kids saw him from across the street from upstairs, I don’t know if they could give a proper height or not. Hartnell was really very tall, and I think he was a bad judge of height due to his being very tall.

Remember, Mageau said Z was beefy or fat, without blubbery. Allan, Ross’s schoolmate, said that Ross was very self conscious about his weight and would wear clothes that would hide his size the best he could. Allan also mirrored Mageau’s statement about being fat without having rolls, etc.

As far as gaining a lot of weight over a ten year period, take it from me that it can happen. I think I weigh about 80 pounds more than I did 10 years ago. Ross was likely on meds that could have affected his weight one way or another, up or down