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Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

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Norse
(@norse)
Posts: 1764
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Why can’t the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross?

I never said it couldn’t. I was only arguing about the likelihood of the poem NOT being about suicide. Sure, it could be a poem about suicide written by a male author, from a female perspective – that is entirely possible and not unheard of as a literary device either.

In fact, I have maintained for some time now that IF the poem was written by Z, then the above is the most likely explanation for its existence: He wrote it not as Z, but as a student (or similar), and it doesn’t pertain to Bates at all.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 6:18 pm
AK Wilks
(@ak-wilks)
Posts: 1407
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FWIW back when I was frequently communicating with law enforcement virtually every contact I had was comfortable thinking the poem was most likely referencing a man writing about killing a woman, Zodiac wrote the poem and all Riverside materials and that Z probably killed Bates.

MODERATOR

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 6:30 pm
(@scandinavian)
Posts: 17
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Sounds like a suicide poem to me too, but whats matter is that its linked to zodiac by handwriting. Not what its about.

Sorry if my english is bad:-)

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 6:33 pm
BigMajestic
(@bigmajestic)
Posts: 38
Eminent Member
 

Desktop poem is thought to be from the Zodiac. Hundreds of literary experts claim it’s a suicide note from a female. The Zodiac is a woman! :o Talk about crackproof. We need to look for a beefy woman with a butch hairdo and glasses! :lol:

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 7:14 pm
Norse
(@norse)
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Sounds like a suicide poem to me too, but whats matter is that its linked to zodiac by handwriting. Not what its about.

Very true. If one goes with Morrill, it doesn’t matter what the poem is seemingly about. It could be about bunnies dancing merrily in the sunshine – makes no difference whatsoever.

Problem is that Morrill’s verdict isn’t undisputed.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 7:41 pm
Norse
(@norse)
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We need to look for a beefy woman with a butch hairdo and glasses! :lol:

It would explain a lot of things…

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 7:43 pm
Norse
(@norse)
Posts: 1764
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FWIW back when I was frequently communicating with law enforcement virtually every contact I had was comfortable thinking the poem was most likely referencing a man writing about killing a woman, Zodiac wrote the poem and all Riverside materials and that Z probably killed Bates.

I don’t get that, to be honest. I can understand how someone might consider this a possibility, given the context, but to consider it the most likely possibility seems very odd to me. It’s considerably more difficult to interpret the poem as being about murder from the male perspective than about suicide from the female perspective.

What does "sick of living/unwilling to die" refer to? Who is "she"? What’s the meaning of "she will be found this time"? In the context of a suicide poem all of the above makes perfect sense, there’s no need for any very inventive interpretation.
In the context of a murder poem/murder fantasy poem, however – how do we explain this? Is the murderer sick of living/unwilling to die – or the victim? Or both? Is "she", who appears to be the author, in fact the victim? Is the murderer referring to an instance of a woman being attacked, left to die – and then found? But next time she won’t be – what? Found? Saved?

The obvious explanation is that the author refers to someone attempting suicide, but being found in time to be saved. It’s a common phenomenon: People attempt suicide as a cry for help. Again, this isn’t the only possible interpretation – it’s a poem, after all. But is it a more likely interpretation than the proposed alternative (that this is a highly convoluted reference to murder)? I would say so.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 7:57 pm
Paul_Averly
(@paul_averly)
Posts: 857
Prominent Member
 

In fact, I have maintained for some time now that IF the poem was written by Z, then the above is the most likely explanation for its existence: He wrote it not as Z, but as a student (or similar), and it doesn’t pertain to Bates at all.

Agree, that is my take on it.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 8:56 pm
Talon
(@talon)
Posts: 183
Estimable Member
 

FWIW back when I was frequently communicating with law enforcement virtually every contact I had was comfortable thinking the poem was most likely referencing a man writing about killing a woman, Zodiac wrote the poem and all Riverside materials and that Z probably killed Bates.

I don’t get that, to be honest. I can understand how someone might consider this a possibility, given the context, but to consider it the most likely possibility seems very odd to me. It’s considerably more difficult to interpret the poem as being about murder from the male perspective than about suicide from the female perspective.

What does "sick of living/unwilling to die" refer to? Who is "she"? What’s the meaning of "she will be found this time"? In the context of a suicide poem all of the above makes perfect sense, there’s no need for any very inventive interpretation.
In the context of a murder poem/murder fantasy poem, however – how do we explain this? Is the murderer sick of living/unwilling to die – or the victim? Or both? Is "she", who appears to be the author, in fact the victim? Is the murderer referring to an instance of a woman being attacked, left to die – and then found? But next time she won’t be – what? Found? Saved?

The obvious explanation is that the author refers to someone attempting suicide, but being found in time to be saved. It’s a common phenomenon: People attempt suicide as a cry for help. Again, this isn’t the only possible interpretation – it’s a poem, after all. But is it a more likely interpretation than the proposed alternative (that this is a highly convoluted reference to murder)? I would say so.

I fully agree. I get no sense of a desire to commit murder or a wanting to kill someone when I read the poem. Purely a self confrontation with suicide and how the process might progress.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 9:01 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
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I don’t get that, to be honest. I can understand how someone might consider this a possibility, given the context, but to consider it the most likely possibility seems very odd to me. It’s considerably more difficult to interpret the poem as being about murder from the male perspective than about suicide from the female perspective.

What does "sick of living/unwilling to die" refer to? Who is "she"? What’s the meaning of "she will be found this time"? In the context of a suicide poem all of the above makes perfect sense, there’s no need for any very inventive interpretation.
In the context of a murder poem/murder fantasy poem, however – how do we explain this? Is the murderer sick of living/unwilling to die – or the victim? Or both? Is "she", who appears to be the author, in fact the victim? Is the murderer referring to an instance of a woman being attacked, left to die – and then found? But next time she won’t be – what? Found? Saved?

The obvious explanation is that the author refers to someone attempting suicide, but being found in time to be saved. It’s a common phenomenon: People attempt suicide as a cry for help. Again, this isn’t the only possible interpretation – it’s a poem, after all. But is it a more likely interpretation than the proposed alternative (that this is a highly convoluted reference to murder)? I would say so.

Yes. Most suicide victims don’t want to die. To me, the title SCREAMS suicide: Who is sick of living and unwilling to die?

This poem would sound funny if it was written in first person: "All over my new red dress", "I won’t die this time", "Someone’ll find me".

IMO, it’s easier for the author to reflect on it this way.

That said, I believe this is a con for Ross to have written this poem, but I don’t think Zodiac wrote it either so it doesn’t make a difference to the rest of the Bates stuff or Northern California.

–I often wonder how much we could be wasting our time because we simply do not know everything LE does. Could be whoever wrote this came forward years later and all this is a moot point! Or not…


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 9:45 pm
traveller1st
(@traveller1st)
Posts: 3583
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"… and an echo arose from the suicides grave"


I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb.

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 10:03 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
Posts: 5315
Member Moderator
 

Unfortunately, suicide wasn’t exclusive to the Zodiac case.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 10:17 pm
morf13
(@morf13)
Posts: 7527
Member Admin
Topic starter
 

Started a discussion about what the poem was about. It’s here- viewtopic.php?f=80&t=2297
Sorry, this thread was starting to go a bit sideways

There is more than one way to lose your life to a killer

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/
http://zodiackillersite.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/Morf13ZKS

 
Posted : March 28, 2015 10:33 pm
Paul_Averly
(@paul_averly)
Posts: 857
Prominent Member
 

*Pro – Ross’s voice was the same monotone voice as Z.

*Pro – Was one of the over 2000 SFPD suspects.

*Con – Was one of the over 2000 SFPD suspects.

 
Posted : March 29, 2015 12:55 am
Patinky
(@patinky)
Posts: 196
Estimable Member
 

Con: a 7-7.5 inch Timex watch with blood on it was found, believed to be a part of Cheri Jo’s crime scene. It’s not likely Ross’s wrist was that small.

When in doubt, don’t.

 
Posted : March 29, 2015 2:50 am
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