Feather here. I posted on the last page of this discussion. I’ll try this way. I was really curious as to why no records were found in the coroner’s office for Ross’s death. Has anyone else looked into this? Surely another county or city would not have been given information on his death? But WHY NO RECORDS AT THE CORONER’S OFFICE in Santa Cruz (I believe it was).

There probably are records but they have been misfiled. Or the records could have been requested by another agency, police perhaps, and no note was left in the file.

Feather here. I posted on the last page of this discussion. I’ll try this way. I was really curious as to why no records were found in the coroner’s office for Ross’s death. Has anyone else looked into this? Surely another county or city would not have been given information on his death? But WHY NO RECORDS AT THE CORONER’S OFFICE in Santa Cruz (I believe it was).

I reached out to them. I actually spoke with somebody there, as they searched for them with me on the phone. It’s been a while now, but as I recall, I almost want to say that the person looking for it may have actually been a police officer,I think I remember that they did double duty. He told me that he knew what he was doing, and how the files were arranged, but he couldn’t find one for Ross.

Just some thoughts. Ross’ address on the death certificate was a personal care services type facility or what may have been known as an Assisted Living Facility (ALF). If he had lived there for three years (1974-1977), according to his death certificate, that can mean only one thing, he was a Medicare beneficiary, in other words, he was a Medicare insuranced person. Facilities like ALF’s are paid for with Medicare insurance, specifically Medicare Part A which covers things such as hospital in-patient stays, home health, hospice, skilled nursing facilities, ALFs. Yes, ALFs would accept private-pay insurance but a majority of these facilities accept Medicare insured residents because its guaranteed rent when the Federal Government is paying for the residence. Check drops every month for that resident.

However, Medicare coverage is only available to people aged 65 and older UNLESS you have a disability or end-stage renal disease. Since Ross resided in an ALF from 1974-1977, from age 33 to age 36, then I think he was either adjudicated disabled or like most people on Medicare Part A prior to age 65, he went and got diagnosed with a physical disability (think obesity), and signed-up for his Social Security disability benefits which automatically entitles one to Medicare Part A coverage. I just have to believe he was on Medicare because who is gonna pay Ross’ stay in an expensive ALF? Either his brother or other family members paid out-of-pocket for his residence there, or more likely, either they or the State had Ross’ adjudicated or diagnosed disabled so that the Federal Government (i.e. Medicare) could foot the bill for his residence from 1974-1977. I just don’t see his family paying for his stay because that can get expensive real quick.

If true, this is significant because it means Ross may not have been considered "disabled" prior to 1974 and from 1974-1977 he lived in an ALF, a place where one can come and go as they pleased. I’m betting he was like a lot of folks that game the system and get their "fat check" each month. This slang term refers to people who use obesity as a pre-text to qualify for month Social Security disability which in turn qualifies one automatically for Medicare health insurance.

Also, "Last Occupation" as dishwasher tells me that this was an older occupation, pre-1974, since one doesn’t typically collect disability and Medicare and also work. I believe they asked his brother what Ross’ last known job was and that’s what was reported for the death certificate.

Unless you can dig up an ALF address prior to 1974, then I think he was never officially disabled prior to 1974 since he needed Medicare to pay for his residence from 1974-1977. I do not know how those conservatorships work and if those qualify you for Medicare because of a "mental" disability. Or did the State of California pick up the tab for any of his mental institutional stays? With Ross’ moving from one institution to another, then settling down in his last 3 three years of life in Santa Cruz, in what may have been an ALF, tells me he may have only been officially diagnosed disabled those last 3 years. And even then, it may have only been a physical disability (obesity). This also makes me think his past mental institution stays may have been those short stays based on law enforcement holds as opposed to being committed. What if he was only temporarily in these mental institutions on holds based off arrests? This means there could be more arrest records (mugshots) in other jurisdictions that exist.

Of course all these Medicare records are protected and unavailable to the general public. And any medical records, even if family agreed to release them, are more than likely long since destroyed as Medicare only requires doctors and Medicare funded facilities to keep records for 6 years and then they can be destroyed. And these would have been entirely paper files back in the 70s so they have long since been shredded.

Again, the point of my post is he lived in a Medicare reimbursed facility. Ross was under age 65 which means he wouldn’t normally be entitled to Medicare coverage unless he had a disability diagnoses. He lived in an ALF that may have allowed him the freedom to come and go as he pleased. If you can’t find another ALF address prior to 1974, then it stands to reason he was only considered disabled in 1974 or shortly before. When one applies to Social Security disability, Medicare Part A coverage is almost instantaneous. He would have been a person with Medicare coverage to pay for his residence from 1974-1977. Any address pre-1974 needs to be researched and one might be able to build a timeline that shows what I am saying is accurate-he was only officially disabled in 1974.

Thanks for posting that info KTK, and welcome.

The stuff you said is interesting for sure. The issue for us has always been that we can’t find anything at all for Ross during the crucial 1968-1974 timeframe. We don’t know where he lived. One person that knew Ross and his brother Tim, thought Ross had lived in San Fran, but didn’t have exact details. Allegedly, his brother Tim confided that he thought Ross was Zodiac, but didn’t elaborate. Now Tim is dead, and Ross’s surviving Brother wants nothing to do with talking about Ross. So we haven’t made any progress, and as you pointed out, things that might leave a paper trail like medical records, etc are private

Thankfully, there are some folks who are more appealing for relatives to talk to.

Thanks for posting that info KTK, and welcome.

The stuff you said is interesting for sure. The issue for us has always been that we can’t find anything at all for Ross during the crucial 1968-1974 timeframe. We don’t know where he lived. One person that knew Ross and his brother Tim, thought Ross had lived in San Fran, but didn’t have exact details. Allegedly, his brother Tim confided that he thought Ross was Zodiac, but didn’t elaborate. Now Tim is dead, and Ross’s surviving Brother wants nothing to do with talking about Ross. So we haven’t made any progress, and as you pointed out, things that might leave a paper trail like medical records, etc are private

Tim did live in SF in 1969. For Tim to believe Ross was Z, he would have to know that Ross was 1) in the area of SF in 1969, and 2) Not locked up in jail or a mental facility.

I would think, based on Tim’s suspicion that Ross was free and around SF when the Z crimes took place.

Thanks for your post KilltheKing; however based on today’s at least today’s standards being obese would in no way qualify you for those types of benefits. You may qualify if you have a disability that could lead to obesity, but not for obesity. You also can work and receive these benefits as long as what you make does not exceed a certain amount. Medicaid programs began in 1965 and is referred to as Medi-cal in the state of California. You can receive SSI or SSDI if you have a disability. If he was on either of these he still would be able to work and qualify for his medical benefits that would pay for this type of residential setting. If he made too much for full coverage but not enough to lose his benefits he would have just had a share of cost for the home.

He would have been on disability based on his mental illness which was well documented by this point. We actually do know that Ross was at Agnews State Hospital from late 1970/early 1971 to ??? (likely late 1973). We have two witnesses to that: Jonathon and that guy who lived in Ross’ 1967-68 apartment in Santa Cruz in 1970. We know Ross was taken away by Santa Cruz police after a bizarre incident in the fall of 1970.

We know that Ross’ conservatorship began in December 1970.

Many mental patients, who had no other criminal convictions, were released in 1973 when court ruled state could not involuntarily keep mental patients unless they had been convicted of a crime, which Ross had not been. All he had to do was ask to leave at this point. That’s when California set up programs that placed many mental patients in these assisted facilities. I always assumed that was the situation with Ross.

Devil’s advocate: Why should we put much stock in Tim Sullivan’s suspicions about his brother if we don’t buy Steve Hodel’s, Dennis Kaufman’s, or Gary Stewart’s allegations against their fathers (or stepfather in Kaufman’s case)? And a secondhand account of Tim’s suspicions, at that?

I don’t know that we put stock in his statements but since he is not alive any more to say why he believed his brother was Zodiac we have endeavored to learn why. Tim could have been totally off base but Ross was in key locations at the time of the murders, including Cheri Jo’s murder. The librarian and other library workers believed Ross to be involved with Cheri Jo’s murder and they did not know what Tim’s suspicions were about is brother. That adds weight to Tim’s statements.

The other people that you mention are still around and talking. The more they talk and present "evidence" the less we believe their suspects are viable.

Devil’s advocate: Why should we put much stock in Tim Sullivan’s suspicions about his brother if we don’t buy Steve Hodel’s, Dennis Kaufman’s, or Gary Stewart’s allegations against their fathers (or stepfather in Kaufman’s case)? And a secondhand account of Tim’s suspicions, at that?

see my other post, you are NOT going to post here strictly to troll a suspect! You are warned, and you will be banned if it continues

I don’t know that we put stock in his statements but since he is not alive any more to say why he believed his brother was Zodiac we have endeavored to learn why. Tim could have been totally off base but Ross was in key locations at the time of the murders, including Cheri Jo’s murder. The librarian and other library workers believed Ross to be involved with Cheri Jo’s murder and they did not know what Tim’s suspicions were about is brother. That adds weight to Tim’s statements.

The other people that you mention are still around and talking. The more they talk and present "evidence" the less we believe their suspects are viable.

Tim suspected Ross was Zodiac for unknown reason. If Ross was in an institution in Santa Cruz during the Z murders, Tim would have no reason to suspect Ross, so obviously, there’s something that Tim knew that we don’t

What I learned in this thread, Sullivan evidently has a living relative, we can get a familial DNA partial from that.

My thoughts on this topic regarding morning of death:

Mental outpatients who are under banner of schizophrenia can get qualified for Medicaid.

No autopsy is necessary if family doesn’t request it in California, at least not in 1977.

He was likely dead several days before he was found, cremated at Soquel crematory and ashes scattered to ocean which is what they do when family does not purchase a headstone, a marker or a plot. The ocean is literally a few blocks from this facility.

We have a pic in 1959, he is definitely not 300 pounds — don’t get hung up on height and weight peeps it doesn’t matter for locking this.

A person can gain a hundred pounds in a year, my experience working a documentary on obesity tells me this.

We don’t need Tim’s thoughts to confirm Ross as Z. We need Ross’ handwriting.

We will need many of you for the real Zodiac story, you obviously have done outstanding work!

He was likely dead several days before he was found, cremated at Soquel crematory and ashes scattered to ocean which is what they do when family does not purchase a headstone, a marker or a plot. The ocean is literally a few blocks from this facility.

Ross was not dead for several days before being found, he lived in a care home with staff that checked on the residents regularly. Ross’s brother John was the informant on his death certificate not the person that found him. John as next of kin supplied (informed) the personal info needed for the death certificate, such as parents names, place of birth and time in California etc.

Due to Ross’s size cremation was most likely the best and least costly way of dealing with the remains. Ross’s immediate relatives were his two brothers who were both in their 20s with limited funds.