What about Ross? Was he a math genius? He worked in a library, and did he ever have another job? He was homeless, he was arrested, and he was ultimately institutionalized until his death at a young age. I would say his mental illness was a big limitation to him. Since he doesn’t appear to have any skills or training to make him particularly adept at writing codes, due to the previous fact, I would say that he would probably be worse at it than the average person.

Such reasoning is a truly pernicious because roughly if 1% of the population has this specific mental illness, which today is about 60 million people, and these (cited with mental illness), about 0.5 % have a giant IQ (140 or more), this gives us 300,000 people, which reduced to an adult population discarding children, we would have about 175,000.
Because not all of these 175,000 people have the same environmental and social conditions, for logic, only a few excel in some areas. We have 175,000 smart schizophrenics colleges or winning prizes nobel etc. Not of corse. Many are just "ordinary people" in ordinary jobs, and some of the obsession is to be criminal, then …

It is not a statement that Z was a genius, is only a rough analysis.
One way or another, Z was a sick crazy mental, that is a fact, because a normal person he was not sure.

Marcelo

We need the mental institution records…good chance they did an iq test….i would be interested to see where ross fell on the iq spectrum…i dont really like painting z as mental in the traditional sense as i think that bastard was in full control of his faculties..some people paint as a hobby and others have a homocide hobby..

The only cipher Z wrote that we know was actually constructed logically is the 408, and as ciphers go, it was pretty simple and was solved rather easily. So, the intelligent requirements for being Z, as we know them, are fairly minimal, and easily met by Ross or anyone who could attend college.

Based on what? You simply,like the rest of us, don’t know his IQ or skills?

On what? You tell me. No I don’t know his IQ or skills. Are you saying that you don’t either? Then why are making the claim that Ross’ mental illness limiting him, at least so far as his ability to create ciphers, was a "myth"?

If you don’t even know what his abilities are, how can you say whether or not they were limited by his illness?

Is a person who fit the conditions that we know about Ross more or less likely to be limited compared to the average person, who in my experience is not very competent in code working? I would argue less. I don’t see any basis to assume otherwise.

I don’t really like arguing from a negative, that can lead to false logic, but it is true that there is nothing to preclude it’s very unlikely that he could have been above average intelligence or competence, regardless of his illness. In that case, I don’t think a strong argument can be made either way.

Based on what? You simply,like the rest of us, don’t know his IQ or skills?

On what? You tell me. No I don’t know his IQ or skills. Are you saying that you don’t either? Then why are making the claim that Ross’ mental illness limiting him, at least so far as his ability to create ciphers, was a "myth"?

If you don’t even know what his abilities are, how can you say whether or not they were limited by his illness?

Is a person who fit the conditions that we know about Ross more or less likely to be limited compared to the average person, who in my experience is not very competent in code working? I would argue less. I don’t see any basis to assume otherwise.

I don’t really like arguing from a negative, that can lead to false logic, but it is true that there is nothing to preclude it’s very unlikely that he could have been above average intelligence or competence, regardless of his illness. In that case, I don’t think a strong argument can be made either way.

The point of my thread is what I wrote above, that somebody with that disease is not necessarily limited by it when it comes to matters of the mind, and still capable of planning,writing,etc

The way I see it, one should always start from the evidence. If it has been established that Ross was diagnosed as A, B or C – well, you look at the evidence: Is there anything Z did or wrote which might indicate that he suffered from the same condition?

However, for this to be meaningful, we have to know – of course – precisely which diagnosis is the relevant one. I’m not sure to what extent we know this in Ross’ case. It has been mentioned that he was a paranoid schizophrenic. Where does that come from again? His brother? And was this an actual diagnosis Ross was given at the time – one which has been confirmed?

I can’t recall now, I think his Brother(s), Katz,and the Librarian or some combo of them.

We know he was in and out of mental hospitals, we know of his breakdown in 1968 in the phonebooth,etc. No doubt he was ill

No doubt he was ill

No doubt at all. But the exact nature of his illness is what matters. That he was mentally ill, in some shape or form, doesn’t really say anything. Mentall illness as such doesn’t rule him out as a suspect (quite to the contrary, one could even say), but a certain kind of mental illness could rule him out.

I can think of a point or two which can be made if he was, indeed, a paranoid schizophrenic. But unless this can be confirmed, I see no point in speculating either way.

As with many schizophrenics, and from what we know of Ross, they tend to slip in and out of it. I’ve known people who suffered from schizophrenia. One period of time they are fully functional, the next they are way off. Ross was in mental hospitals before he worked at the library. So it’s fair to assume he would have breakdowns, but bounce back. But even when they are functional, schizophrenics still seem a bit off.

The overall Zodiac timeline has always had these gaps that many have theorized was a sign Z was locked up or in a mental institution. With Ross these gaps seems to line up with what we know of him.
Treated in 1968 after the phone booth, by mid 1968.
Late 1968, Ross’s father dies, Dec S.A.D kicks in.
Z crimes start.
Z creates his ciphers in 1969. The 340 might have even been created shortly after the 408, so mid 1969.
Z seems to take more risks late in 1969, almost gets caught in PH.
Late 1969, Z writes to Melvin Belli, saying he is losing his mind.
1970, the Z letters get more and more crazy (see below).
Late 1970, Riverside connection is made. Z goes silent. Writes again early 1971, but no more letters for 3 years.
1971 Ross is found eating a stick of butter, out of his mind.
According to his brother, Ross is committed to an asylum.
1974, the year Ross must have been released since it shows he was back in SC that year, final Z letters are mailed.
Ross dies in 1977. Zodiac stays silent even after the high profile fake 1978 letter.

July 1970, this is not a sane person

As some day it may hapen that a victom must be found. I’ve got a little list. I’ve got a little list, of society offenders who might well be underground who would never be missed who would never be missed. There is the pestulentual nucences who whrite for autographs, all people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs. All children who are up in dates and implore you with im platt. All people who are shakeing hands shake hands like that. And all third persons who with unspoiling take thoes who insist. They’d none of them be missed. They’d none of them be missed. There’s a banjo seranader and the others of his race and the piano orginast I got him on the list. All people who eat pepermint and phomphit in your face, they would never be missed They would never be missed And the Idiout who phraises with inthusastic tone of centuries but this and every country but his own. And the lady from the provences who dress like a guy who doesn’t cry and the singurly abnormily the girl who never kissed. I don’t think she would be missed Im shure she wouldn’t be missed. And that nice impriest that is rather rife the judicial hummerest I’ve got him on the list. All funny fellows, commic men and clowns of private life. They’d none of them be missed. They’d none of them be missed. And uncompromising kind such as wachmacallit, thingmebob, and like wise, well – – nevermind, and tut tut tut tut, and whashisname, and you know who, but the task of filling up the blanks I rather leave up to you. But it really doesn’t matter whom you place upon the list, for none of them be missed, none of them be missed.

There is also a very interesting gap in letters and crimes in late 1970. Ross had a mental conservatorship filed around 12/1970. Meaning he was going off the deep end before that.

The last verified Z letter that year was July 1970. There were Z postcards mailed in Oct 1970, however (and I believe they are real) many believe the cards are fakes. The next letter was in March 1971.

What this means is that there is a possible 8 Month gap in letters starting in 1970. This lines up perfectly with Ross’ mental conservatorship.

There is also a very interesting gap in letters and crimes in late 1970. Ross had a mental conservatorship filed around 12/1970. Meaning he was going off the deep end before that.

The last verified Z letter that year was July 1970. There were Z postcards mailed in Oct 1970, however (and I believe they are real) many believe the cards are fakes. The next letter was in March 1971.

What this means is that there is a possible 8 Month gap in letters starting in 1970. This lines up perfectly with Ross’ mental conservatorship.

And it gets even better. Ross was in Agnews in Santa Clara. He may have also been in Napa State. That March 1971 letter, the final for almost 3 years, was mailed in an unusual place, Pleasanton.

It just so happens highway 680 is the route from Santa Cruz/Clara and Napa and passes through Pleasanton. It’s also a town that Ross would pass through if say his brother was driving him to his college at UOP.

I don’t disagree with the idea of this thread, just that the title was too strongly worded and the example used wasn’t the most fitting. It’s headed in a better direction.

Instead of comparing Ross to a "normal" person, maybe it would be more useful to compare him to other killers. Here’s an article about Serial Killers and mental illness. It doesn’t have a lot to say on the subject, but it does say that at least one serial killer, Richard Chase, was diagnosed as a a paranoid schizophrenic.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/blame-the-amygdala/201304/what-would-we-find-wrong-in-the-brain-serial-killer

As was David Berkowitz, a strikingly similar killer to zodiac, written letters to the press and all

As was David Berkowitz, a strikingly similar killer to zodiac, written letters to the press and all

http://www.ranker.com/list/serial-kille … google.com

All had schizophrenia:
David Berkowitz, better known as the “Son of Sam” killed six people in the 1970s claiming that his neighbor’s dog had told him to do it. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
Ed Gein, gruesome inspiration for fiction’s Norman Bates, Buffalo Bill, and Leatherface, murdered and mutilated his victims often keeping grisly “trophies.”
Richard Chase—”the vampire of Sacramento”—killed six people in California and drank their blood.
David Gonzalez killed four people in 2004 and claimed he’d been inspired by “Nightmare on Elm Street.”
Jared Lee Loughner, convicted of killing six people and wounding 13 including U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords in 2011, was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
James Eagan Holmes, currently on trial for the 2012 “Batman murders” in Aurora, has been diagnosed with schizophrenia by 20 doctors.

I personally think the best thing is start to consider that z did not have mental illiness…the known z crimes to me do not seem like z was a nut short…just my take